Proper Horse Models

[atheniandp]

Basically every total war game had horrendous horse models. Even Shogun 2 had hideous horses with gigantic heads.

Can we expect realistic looking horses this time around? The Ruischi horse models from M2TW looked fantastic. Mount and Blade also has better horse models.

[Moorish guy]

lol there wasnt anything wrong with the horses imo.

[Rasic]

I never visually saw anything wrong with the horses (at least the ones on warscape). I think some kind of screen shot comparison would make this easier to compare. I'd like to see some more variance in the horses though, with maybe some stats attached to it. Some are faster, some more beastly with a charging bonus that kind of thing.

[atheniandp]

Heads are disproportionate to the bodies. Or the back leg/buttox is disproportionate.

Here is a Ruichi horse:

[zg0301zg]

Heads are disproportionate to the bodies. Or the back leg/buttox is disproportionate.

Here is a Ruichi horse:

you need to know that:
1st of all in those days in average people were shorter then today
2nd asian people are in general shorter, so riding a horse and comparing the size is normal ....

[AnthoniusII]

The issue has to do with the visual result of the horse models and not only their sizes comparing humans.
Why people where shorter?
Medieval Romans -according to their ethic group-could have an average hight from 1.6m to 1.8.
Persians were also tall people...

[MasterAdnin]

Wow. Never seen anyone pay that much attention to detail about the horses, but yea dude, those horses look kinda weird. Lets hope they look better in Rome 2.

[Szlachta]

Nothing wrong with the horses.

[Destraex]

I agree somewhat. But different species of horse meant different dimensions. What I want is for them to put the right horses in for the right factions.

[atheniandp]

That would be the best case scenario. Realistically, all I want is good proportions. In the second screenshot that head would better compliment the body of a dragon than a horse.


EDIT: Reading over some of your posts, people, really makes me question your reasoning. If everyone though like the naysayers, there would be no Roma Surrectum for RTW and no better models in any other game. We would all be blissfully frolicking among 5000 foot trees as pyjama Parthians to this day.

[Destraex]

A lot of people do not want a challenge. They are used to the fischer price version of total war.
I mean my 7yr old is actually good at medieval2 for example. He does not have to understand anything but point and click really.

Where I am absolutely blown away by total war and the idea of it. I do not have much respect for the battle system or the campaign map.
Its good and I have a lot of fun. But I want more than what shogun1 offered now. I want more advanced and complex features not just
a cheat for the AI.

I would say most total war gamers have grown with the games, but the games have not grown with them.
We all buy them but a lot would put them down fast without mods.

[Boom S]

excellent thread.

there was a LOT of inaccuracies with the horse models in TW games so far, just like human beings horses also look VERY different from one region to another.

if anyone wants a historical source, this thread will help.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=376959

we all know the importance cavalry played in the warfare of the ancient period. we also know that not all horses were created equal ( ) that is to say, some horse breeds were favoured for warfare and people went to great lengths to acquire horses of superior breeds. I do not know how much RTR follows the specific horse breeds in terms of appearances but it would be nice to know.

what I'm trying to do here is to first identify the horse breed used by a faction and then try to recreate its appearance with the help of descriptions from ancient texts and their modern day descendants. In some cases, if we are lucky, the modern breeds haven't changed much from their ancestors, the mongol horse for example.
more information and corrections are most welcome !

I'll start with the numidian cavalry, possibly the same breed was also used by carthaginian cavalry.

1.Numidian/Carthaginian Cavalry

similar to the modern berber horse ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barb_%28horse%29

currently, I'm thinking of the following types

a) arab type light horse that would be used throughout asia and north africa (representing the ancestor of the similar marwari horse in India and berber horse in africa) roughly trying to recreate the turkoman here.
b) a heavy nisean horse that would be used by elite cavalry units of eastern factions and asiatic diadochi factions like seleucids. could be used by cataphracts too but those are in reality hidden under the armour so the model doesn't matter much, only size does.
c) medium thessalian/thracian/greek horse primarily used by elite units like hetairoi and general's bodyguard in greece and balkans
d) medium andalusian horse for elite units of rome and spain
e) a light european horse, still undecided on what to base it on
f) a mongol pony type horse for the steppe tribes.

Philip Sidnell, author of "Warhorse Cavalry in Ancient Warfare" is a member of this forum http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=140945 and an expert on ancient warhorses.

[Ichon]

Hahaha... I hardly ever zoomed in on Shogun 2 battles since there wasn't time so never noticed that. Pretty funny looking. The referenced book sounds interesting as well- I encounter a lot of academic writers who make claims about horses and have clearly never been around horses so it makes all their cavalry related assumptions untrustworthy. It just goes to show that read as much as you want, to really be an expert you need some solid first hand experience.

[Senchiro]

First time when i launch shogun II it was the horse that kinda shocked me first, just awefull...

I agree 100% with the OP.

[AnthoniusII]

Last time a TW game had decent horse models was in MTW 1.
From that point TW games have horses that do not look like horses.
I am a fan of horse too.
In fact in antiquity and medieval eras horses are as important as warriors when it comes to the final visual result!
I do not want to believe that CA can create all those wondrefull and detailed human models and complicated ship ones but NOT a decent horse model!!!
Now compare the horse models Marka modding team created with the last Shogun 2 ones!
Rusichi horses

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Can you see how natural those horses look?
CA has very skilled modelers but for some reason they can not/don't want? to nake decent horse models!

[Boom S]

wow !

[dom385]

I thought empire and napoleons horses looked pretty nice, maybe a bit "stiff" but still. You can see some horses in the back of the siege tower screen and they look pretty good, although obviously you can actually see that much detail.

Most horses in rtw should be small or light shouldnt they? since destriers and whatever didnt exist. Although I think the franks had a large breed of horse that was suitable for a battle mount, dont know if they were around in this time frame though.

[panzerschreck]

horses are horrible in shogun 2, that's true.

[AnthoniusII]

Sizes are not that important as the "average" apearence.
For example:
We can not ask CA to present Nisean horses accuratly because no one has any accurate picture of how they looked!
But Nisean horses were important to Armenians,Seleukeians,Parthians and later through the hellenistic kingdoms of Afganistan/India- to Chinese.
What we know (from byzantine sourses that are the last ones) is that they were strong and tall but also fast and they could carry a cataphract in long distances!
Byzantines and Arabs wrote that Nisean horses were the most beutyfull horses they ever saw.
In the end though what CA can do is a basic horse model that will be reprodused in a couple of sizes to present both heavy and steppe/arabic horse breeds as well.

[NicolaiR]

Look at the head size of the man and the horse in the second shogun 2 picture.