Alleged firefight breaks out between N. Korean Army Chiefs; dozens dead

[Caelius]

Pretty crazy if this report gets verified, looks like Kim Jung-un and his supporters' purge of the old guard isn't going as expected. Might be some ramifications to this incident if Ri has friends amongst the other senior regime leaders.

Source

A gunbattle broke out when the North Korean regime removed army chief Ri Yong-ho (right) from office, leaving 20 to 30 soldiers dead, according to unconfirmed intelligence reports. Some intelligence analysts believe Ri, who has not been seen since his abrupt sacking earlier this week, was injured or killed in the confrontation.

According to government officials here, the gunbattle erupted when Vice Marshal Choe Ryong-hae (left), the director of the People's Army General Political Bureau, tried to detain Ri in the process of carrying out leader Kim Jong-un's order to sack him. Guards protecting Ri, who is a vice marshal, apparently opened fire. "We cannot rule out the possibility that Ri was injured or even killed in the firefight," said one source.

Choe is believed to be the right-hand man of Jang Song-taek, the uncle and patron of the young North Korean leader. He made his career in the Workers Party rather than the army. After being appointed director of the bureau, Choe repeatedly clashed with Ri, who came up as a field commander, prompting Choe to keep Ri under close watch and apparently triggering an internal probe targeting the army chief.

The military had grown tremendously in power under former North Korean leader Kim Jong-il's "songun" or military-first doctrine, and military heavyweights like Ri who grew in stature during this period were considered threats to the young North Korean leader.

"The firefight has still not been 100 percent confirmed," said a government official here. "It may take some time for us to gain a clearer picture of what happened."

[The.Delegate]

Wow, this could have huge implications for internal stability if they cant manage to suppress the supporters of the out-going general.

[justicar5]

If Kim loses the Army..all hell could break lose.

[frozenprince]

Man, the world seems to be falling the apart more than usual this week. Is it something in the water?

[Babur]

Man, the world seems to be falling the apart more than usual this week. Is it something in the water?

well the world is due to end this year

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Time for me to go over to the North Korea forum and ask the comrade juche spirits whats happening

[MathiasOfAthens]

Time for me to go over to the North Korea forum and ask the comrade juche spirits whats happening

Your very brave, let us know how it works out. Best wishes.

[Consul Napoleon Bonaparte]

This is probably true, however, if they get rid of the 'Old Guard' they will have to come up with valid reasons to not affect stability.

[Heinz Guderian]

Thats what you do when your employer tries to lay you off as part of their "downsizing". You open fire like a ****ing hero. Hope you reading this Ms.Hanson MBA. Who's the boss now huh? Do you know who General Ri Yong-ho is? I didnt think you did.

[Babur]

Thats what you do when your employer tries to lay you off as part of their "downsizing". You open fire like a ****ing hero. Hope you reading this Ms.Hanson MBA. Who's the boss now huh? Do you know who General Ri Yong-ho is? I didnt think you did.

Do you want Philip Hammond to take note of this as well?

[OCWife]

This is a great opportunity to strike NK and finally eradicate their evil presence from the world. Strike down the beast while it's injured.

[Heinz Guderian]

This is a great opportunity to strike NK and finally eradicate their evil presence from the world.

well whatcha waiting for?

[justicar5]

This is a great opportunity to strike NK and finally eradicate their evil presence from the world. Strike down the beast while it's injured.

Except they would blast Seoul off the map, have an absolutely massive army (out dated but mind bogglingly huge) and are behind massive fortifications...also China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army

Yes that is 9 million people in the military + reserves.... Add in a few nukes, more howitzers than god, chemical weapons and blind fanaticism and you have a hell of a fight.

[OCWife]

Except they would blast Seoul off the map, have an absolutely massive army (out dated but mind bogglingly huge) and are behind massive fortifications...also China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army

Yes that is 9 million people in the military + reserves....

China would gladly join our Vanguard if we promise them all the NK territory. We'll give China SK too if NK isn't enough. China doesn't give a crap about communist ideals. Communism was just an excuse/tool for them to gain power.

[justicar5]

China would gladly join our Vanguard if we promise them all the NK territory. We'll give China SK too if NK isn't enough. China doesn't give a crap about communist ideals. Communism was just an excuse/tool for them to gain power.

They do however care about NK (Or rather the buffer it provides) it keeps a western friendly state off there borders.

[Fluttershy]

They do however care about NK (Or rather the buffer it provides) it keeps a western friendly state off there borders.

which is ridiculous... SK is only buddy buddy with the west BECAUSE of NK. SK would likely have perfectly normal relations if the the threat of NK was gone

[Denny Crane!]

They do however care about NK (Or rather the buffer it provides) it keeps a western friendly state off there borders.

They don't care about having SKorea on their border. SKorea and China are rather friendly these days but they do care about losing face. And their is a whole lot of face wrapped up in NK.

[Vítor Gaspar]

China would gladly join our Vanguard if we promise them all the NK territory. We'll give China SK too if NK isn't enough. China doesn't give a crap about communist ideals. Communism was just an excuse/tool for them to gain power.

Posts like this remind me that, in the Political Mudpit, you have a bunch of people whose "knowledge" on international relations and military subjects is merely based on a bunch of videogames and little more.

Nobody "conquers" territory these days, unless you're a backwater African nation still stuck in border or ethnic wars and whatnot. China wouldn't join "our" vanguard because they have more to lose than to win.

For China, North Korea is a problem, because he's the stereotypical drunk uncle who messes up every family gathering around Christmas. But, he's part of the family, so they can't simply send him away.

They try to ignore him, help him once in a while, but, overall, they're on the edge with him.

So China would never side with the US. And it would probably support North Korea diplomatically and little else. China has more to worry about these days than feeble territorial conquests.

The developed world, to which China belongs, has left that phase.

[Morbius Sire]

Posts like this remind me that, in the Political Mudpit, you have a bunch of people whose "knowledge" on international relations and military subjects is merely based on a bunch of videogames and little more.

Nobody "conquers" territory these days, unless you're a backwater African nation still stuck in border or ethnic wars and whatnot. China wouldn't join "our" vanguard because they have more to lose than to win.

For China, North Korea is a problem, because he's the stereotypical drunk uncle who messes up every family gathering around Christmas. But, he's part of the family, so they can't simply send him away.

They try to ignore him, help him once in a while, but, overall, they're on the edge with him.

So China would never side with the US. And it would probably support North Korea diplomatically and little else. China has more to worry about these days than feeble territorial conquests.

The developed world, to which China belongs, has left that phase.

Add to that a very larger number of NK citizens fleeing to China if war is declared and NK is getting beaten by SK and the US.
China doesn't, or at least shouldn't have any interest in feeding and taking care of starving NK citizens.

[OCWife]

...

Westerners still don't understand how Chinese people think. Everything you say may be true if thinking through a Western mind/perspective, but that is not how the Chinese think. To the Chinese, the two worst people in the world are the following, in descending order of worseness: Japanese, Koreans. Only a self-loathing Chinese person would consider NK their uncle or part of their family. To the Chinese, NK is not even worthy status of a human. That is the reality; of course, the Chinese will put on a very different mask for Westerners to see.

The Chinese understand how Western people think (because the West has repeatedly tried to impose their thinking on the whole world), and through their very effective propaganda machine, have used ways to deceive Westerners like you into certain mindsets. This allows the Chinese to carry out devious plans in the background more effectively. Everything you said just shows how effectively the Chinese have tricked the Westerners.

China wouldn't join "our" vanguard because they have more to lose than to win.

Haha, no the Chinese have nothing to loose. To China, stomping out NK is like stepping on an ant, and they think of NK as mere lowly ants. Ants that infested part of their land. The only reason China hasn't already destroyed NK is for the sake of the West. Once the West is willing to take military action, the Chinese would be very happy to finally step on this ant. Of course, on the outside, they will put of a front of resistance and whatnot, but that is just, again, part of the propaganda, when in reality, they are very happy that the West finally willing to kill NK.

In fact, if there is word of any Western country attacking NK, do not be surprised if China strikes quickly and takes NK first before the West has a chance; and of course, the Chinese will say they did this to protect China or NK from Western intrusion. In reality, they love the chance to stomp out the NK and know that the West would not retaliate because the West themselves were going to attack NK. If anything, China would emerge as the hero in all of it while the West looks foolish. On the outside, they would criticize the West for wanting to attack NK as trying to attack the Chinese's uncle and usurping Chinese sovereignty, and that they had to occupy NK first in order to pre-empt this. In reality, the Chinese despise NK and have been waiting for a long time for a chance to stomp out the ants.

Everything in your post about the Chinese is what the Chinese want you to think. You have played right into their hands. Of course the Chinese cannot let their true intentions and nature be known to the West. If the West knew that the Chinese hated NK, then if/when China takes over NK, the West would condemn the Chinese as a hate crime. So, the Chinese play the strings of the Western mind perfectly. By putting on a different mask for the West to see, pretending that they consider NK their uncle and have much to loose by attacking NK; then once they do attack NK, they can say they did so very hesitantly and begrudgingly, and did so only as a last resort in order to protect their family from Western intrusion. Therefore, in this way, the Chinese can turn the West into the villains while making themselves the hero, all the while accomplishing the Chinese' true intentions.