SWAP game - Greek Imperial RTW V1.5 - No mods

[Severous]

Hi

NobleNick and I have observed from each others posts, and participation in a recent sucession game, that with have a similar style of play. We also play on V1.5 RTW without mods.

Via PMs we have agreed to play a SWAP game. I will play a few turns, save and pass the game to Nick, who will play on a few turns, save and pass back. And so on.

Turnaround time measured in days giving us the early prospect of the game back again, and again.

Heres the settings we have agreed to use:



Its a first time for both of us playing as Greek Cities or indeed any phalanx faction. Its also a first for me playing on this huge unit size. Because of huge scale we have turned down some of the graphic settings to help make the game run better in big battles.

I have played one year and about to pass to Nick.

A few pictures will be posted tommorrow to show progress.

Heres the first battle fought, first turn.

[.Socrates]

Good luck, looks challenging.

Phalanx nations (imo) are the lazy ones. They stand around and wait for something to hit the pikes. Or at least it's like that in h/h campaign (playing with the xgm mod)

[Carach]

Good luck, looks challenging.

Phalanx nations (imo) are the lazy ones. They stand around and wait for something to hit the pikes. Or at least it's like that in h/h campaign (playing with the xgm mod)

if there was a multiplayer campaign it would be so much more challenging

but no..they dont want to make a multiplayer campaign DAMN YOU! DAAAAMNN YOU!!!

lol

[Severous]

Heres the picture account of my two turns.

First off the battle for Messena on the first move of the campaign. Odds were shown in the post above.

Greek cities have no cavalry except their generals. So off he goes to disrupt the Roman advance and take out the archers. Rest of the Greek army is deployed well back at the top of the hill.


One thing to adjust for Nick. 'Huge' units are not so responsive as 'large' units. Our general would loose some bobyguards an the Roman general charged us and I couldnt disengage quickly.


I led the persuing Roman cavarly into our phalanx units. One Scupii general down, one more to go.


It was a long chase across the whole battlefield but our general made sure the surviving bodyguard did not rally. Beware the Roman archers...each salvo the huge unit fired as I passed took out 3 or more cavalry.


A long rest ocurred. Our general regained breath. The Romans sat in the middle of the battlefield. Perhaps worried about our general in their rear. Once fresh again our general walked around a flank at which point the Roman army moved. One unit went up the hill...to die...and the archers again presented themselves to the general to be charged at.




Ive seen so many posts in the forums of massed phalanx troops. A first for me.






Not as blood free as I would have liked but hand to hand infantry combat seems unavoidable until we can add some more cavalry.


The big disappointment was that 61 Roman archers fled the battlefield. Was a big enough unit to survive and regarrison Messana. So a seige was necessary.
After a seige those Archers would be crushed and Messana was a source of slaves for Greece.


No rest for the army. They marched same turn to take out the rebels.



The army would retire to Syracuse.


Meanwhile in Greece. Corinth would fall to our faction leader.


Peltasts fire into the rear of the militia in the plaza.


Spartans!


An extremely useful wonder of the world is captured. Wont need to build temples so early because this wonder will provide a boost to public order.


The second turn ends with Sicilly promising plenty of action for you Nick.

You will also be able to use ladders to assault Athens. I recommend you look for blind spots...the one for ladders is in a corner and not where you will initially deploy.

Greece is awash with money. Not enough of it at the moment though. Plenty to be built and armies to recruit means I am broke. At this huge scale big armies will shrink our towns and stunt their growth. Interesting.

The economics of hiring cheap mercenaries and disbanding them to grow towns is stronger here than at large setting...cash permitting that is.

[CrazedClown]

ahhh greece. They were my first camaign victory. I got the all factions mod before I ever beat vanilla. So greece will always be my boyz.

[Omnipotent-Q]

ahhh greece. They were my first camaign victory. I got the all factions mod before I ever beat vanilla. So greece will always be my boyz.

I agree Greece, are a great faction to play as. They're the only faction I've bothered to conquer the whole map with. I mean, who doesn't love Spartan Hoplites?

Good Luck with your "SWAP Game" guys. Not that you need it.

[NobleNick]

if there was a multiplayer campaign it would be so much more challenging

but no..they dont want to make a multiplayer campaign DAMN YOU! DAAAAMNN YOU!!!

lol

LOL! Sorry Carach!

Actually, I do want to spin up another RTW 1.5 vanilla campaign. And I believe we will; but, well, here is the story....

After our first game (Carthage) completed, I intended to get another going; but got sucked into some other time-consuming tasks. By the time I got around to starting up the second game, I realized it had been over 3 weeks and no one had posted in the thread saying, "Hey, when's the next game? I'm ready!" So I figured maybe there was not really a demand, and I'd let it rest a bit.

Then, about two weeks ago, Severous PMed me and asked about starting the vanilla 1.5 multiplayer again. BINGO! There was one nibble, at least. But I remembered that Severous brought forward several neat ideas for a multiplayer game last time, that it seemed no one else besides me (and Severous, of course) thought were neat. So I replied to Severous and suggested that maybe instead of starting another multiplayer right away, that he and I might try out one of his ideas. Severous took that and ran with it. He has hosted games on other forums; and he has thus far shown that he knows how to do it well. This is his baby, and I'm enjoying going along for the ride. I just hope I can keep up with him.

Assuming this swap game doesn't wear me to a frazzle, I expect that we will start a new 1.5 vanilla multiplayer in a few weeks or so (whenever this SWAP game plays out). But I don't have the market cornered on multiplayer games: If you're itching to go *NOW*, feel free to grab the thread I started, or make a new one, and start one up yourself!

By the way, thanks for the input: Now I know that there is still interest out there!


************* Greek Cities SWAP game update *************

I got the game from Severous with 129 denarii in the till and a reasonable expansion in place. Our holdings included the new acquisition of Messana on Sicily; and on the Aegean penninsula, Athens was under siege.

I took Athens; and, when I realized that we were already at war with Macedon, moved troops up to prepare to take thier city just to the northwest of Athens. When the staged troops got close enough to reveal that the city was extremely lightly defended, I moved some Peltasts and an archer unit up to start the siege (because our main troops did not have enough movement points left to get there that turn). My plan was to get a ram built early, so that when the main siege army arrived, they could take the city the same turn.

Bad news: a solid half-stack of quality Macedonian troops were on the way back to town, and they attacked my siege force of 2 peltist and 1 archer unit. I hid the archer and one peltist unit in the woods, and sacrificed one unit of peltists in the ensuing battle. It turns out the peltists routed and I was able to retrain the unit; so nothing lost but a few bodies and a little cash. Meanwhile, the Macedonian stack settled back into a now much more stiffly defended city. I started the siege, moved up reinforcements, and then left this whole mess for Severous to handle.

Over on Sicily, We have combined Brutii and Scipii stacks besieging Messana; and Carthage stabbed us in the back early, and have gone for Syracuse. I expect we'll keep Syracuse; but the situation at Messana is tenuous, at best. Have fun, good buddy!

I've continued Severous' lead in developing economic buildings, with a few exceptions to be mentioned in a bit. Despite aggressive investment in buildings, after only three turns I am handing back the game with over 9K denarii in the bank. The Greek Cities do, indeed, have deep pockets.

Pirates laid into our fleet idly sunning themselves near Rhodes. Though not a large force, the pirates sank one ship and severely damaged 2 more. Welcome to the VH battle setting. I moved the battered fleet to the port at Rhodes, retraining the two and training up a replacement ship.

I've started a blacksmith at Rhodes, and have been training up the detestably weak but necessary Militia Hoplites. My advice to Severous is to retrain the Hoplites (and the fleet!) after the blacksmith completes, and use the fleet at Rhodes to effect an ampibious assault on nearby Helicarnassus.

Sparta is the only city we have that can make Hoplites (Armored Hoplites? Whatever the next step up from Militia Hoplites is). So I started a blacksmith there. Been building the highest grade of Hoplites available there, non-stop.)

I'm disappointed at the stats of the almighty Spartan Hoplites. Although their attack stats are excellent, their defense is less than that of Armored Hoplites.

[Goliath]

Heres a tip, always use horses with your phalanx. This way you can chase down archers and avoid flanks.

[Vesa]

I never understood why anyone would allow time limits.....

You do not win by virtue of the fact that the enemy stood on a hill for an hour.

[Flogger]

A nice idea. VH/VH? Going to be a challenge.

[Severous]

Thanks Nick. Like the money and trade infrastucture you have built.

Ive been having a go this evening. 1.5 turns so far. Beaten off some of the armies, got flattened by elephants, lost a leader, captured a town, been branded a coward, started to build cavalry, sent out our spies, trading with Pontus, lots of bandages for heavy casualties. Have a dozen pictures that I will post tomorrow before I carry on.

[Severous]

Heres a few pictures.

The postion I find on Sicilly.

Judging by the black devastation around Syracuse that seige has been going on a few turns. There is seige equipment built so I dont know if Carthage is going to attack or continue to wait it out.

I hate being seiged. I sally forth.

Foolish AI cavalry. Now you see them....


Now you dont

Quite why the AI did this I dont know. It is unusual for the AI to advance close to the walls of a beseiged city during your sally. I found out when I played the Egyptians on VH battle that fresh units wont rout from a slow reign of arrows. Their morale is so good that they just stand and get whittled down to almost nothing.

This is more usual when you sally. You have to lure the AI into range.



After the chase across the face of the wall my general went up a hill then turned back and charged into the persuing cavalry. Routed but not out they would be finished later.

The Greek generals flank. One runs past an infantry unit. The target are those distant mercenary slingers. They would be wiped out in a heavy cavalry sandwich.


The last unit of Carthage standing. Fire arrows to 'amok' them?


It didnt seem to cause any damage. After much running around the exhausted elephants routed. Not wanting survivors to turn up I committed a general to kill the routing animals. I could see the elephants were falling down on top of my cavalry. My general was out of harm out on the end of the unit so I let it continue a while. It was a mistake I would regret later in the turn as my General units have more fighting to do.


Peltasts were rushed up and their first volley was awesome. The 7 remaining elephants fell dead as one. The ground shook.


Off to a good start. The Carthage army has been wiped out.

--

No rest for the victorious troops. Time to march north and fight the Romans. Despite more troops and a better general the game rates the Scipii chances as better. The odds suggest some very powerful troops in the enemy. It is of course the very big Roman general unit.


Missile troops about to earn their keep. The Roman general will be led across the face of the lined up archers and peltasts....several times.


Oh (insert swear word) it.

A Greek general is caught and cannot get out of the Roman bodyguards. A heroic death.

Can usually avoid the Roman infantry pila fire. run off as soon as the Romans prepare to fire...reload.

I will stop my troops firing now. Getting low on ammo. All remaining shots must really count. Will fire only when the Hastati present an unshielded flank or rear as my target.

Loss of the best general spoilt an otherwise acceptable result.

--

The same turn I had a look at the Brutii to the north of Messana. They were not beseiging. So me attacking them would be an open field battle. They were too strong in cavalry. I needed time for my surviving general to replenish a few bodyguard. I waited.
--
Sure enough they beseiged over turn end. I sally on my next turn.


The lone general had to do all the running and luring. He inevitably lost men and routed twice. Late in the battle I noticed a trait message icon. I hadnt seen drop down the left. This is the message...My general has been branded a coward...doubtful courage. Thats the first time I have ever seen this in my RTW playing.


Pleased with the result though. I have a good chance if the Brutii do attack. And if they dont I will get them next turn.

--

Meanwhile in Greece.

The seige Niick mentioned against Macedonia was Larissa. I would have had a go first turn but there was no seige equipment built. So I went on my second turn.


A bloody business this fighting with hoplites. I am not very good at it. Would loose many troops.






Larissa is now a Greek city. It is the first location we can build cavalry. Militia cavalry...but thats great for luring the enemy. Wont have to run our generals so ragged now.

Two weak hoplites are on their way back to Sparta for replacements.

Nick. I will continue playing my second turn tonight. Might have it a couple more days before sending it back to you. Depends on how much more I can find to do in this turn....

[NobleNick]

Judging by the black devastation around Syracuse that seige has been going on a few turns.

Two, to be exact.

Peltasts were rushed up and their first volley was awesome. The 7 remaining elephants fell dead as one.

?!?!?!?! Really? Amazing! It never occured to me that peltists could do this. My experiments (with non-routing elephants) showed that Roman light Auxilia were all but totally worthless against Armored Elephants. But these weren't Armored and they were routing. Hmmm.... This bears investigation.

Loss of the best general spoilt an otherwise acceptable result.

Not to worry. Given that you saved Syracuse, took out some key enemy generals and also stymied the Brutii and Scipii advance at Messana; and that this likely means the imminent fall of Liliybaeum also, I would categorize this as a costly but acceptable result: a much better result than the very real possibility of losing EVERY unit and city on the island. I really worried about our ability to keep both our Sicilian cities on this VH setting. Good job!

A bloody business this fighting with hoplites. I am not very good at it. Would loose many troops... Larissa is now a Greek city.

If you want to make an omelet, you need to break a couple of eggs. As long as you only lose partial units, it is no big impact, as we have lots of money and enough population to retrain to full strength.

I will continue playing my second turn tonight. Might have it a couple more days before sending it back to you. Depends on how much more I can find to do in this turn....

Go for it. Just don't leave me in the same type of pickle I left for you.

[Severous]

I did a couple of battles tonight. These two finished off my second turn.

The victorious leader and some troops from Larissa had more fighting in the turn they captured that city. Leaving the looting etc they met with the governor and some troops from Thermon.

There was a rebel army to knock out. I nearly fell off my chair when the detail screen shows the rebel general was a size 109 unit. Thought it was an ex faction leader. Fortunately the general was militia type cavalry (one hit point)


Unfortunately the AI had control of the reinforcements. This was despite having unticked the box. So instead of killing the enemy from the top of a steep hill with cretans I had to run around helping the AI general. We did quite well though.

--

Not only was the AI taking control above a small bug...but so was this.

Having reloaded a save to continue playing I find that my beseiged units in Messena can sally again. This was the second sally this turn. It seems the save 'forgets' you have already sallied this turn.


Archers only just made it back into the walls to escape the Brutii cavalry.

2 archers killed...and 2 heavy cavalry as they returned to their lines.

With my general being so weak and 'distraught at the number of enemies' there was not much I could do.


One other thing I did this turn. Beseiged Harlicarnassus. Next turn Im going in.

Edit...loaded up for another go.

More Romans landing in Sicilly. My General and archers can sort our infantry but is having a hard time against the three Roman generals.


Halicarnassus. Spys are being recruited in Rhodes. The first one attempted to obtain entry but couldnt. He paid with his life. The second got in but could not open the gates until his second attempt. By then the Greek army had built rams..which they discardard. Mercenary missile troops had a field day.







Another Wonder of the world means public order is very high. City is occupied rather than enslaved or exterminated. Its polulation is less tan 2000 people and on this unit scale recruiting troops will seriously reduce the population to the point where it is slow to grow.

[Severous]

Hi

Nick the game is on its way back to you. 3 turns played. Not on the blitz yet but made a little progress.



Larrisa captured
Rebels west of Athens destroyed
Halicarnassus captured
Seige by Romans at Messana broken
Defeated by Pontus on a bridge

This was the small army of 4 hoplites that Pontus wiped out on the bridge north of Sardis. We inflicted some wounds on their general..who is now 'Spartocus the Ugly'.


Our spy on Rhodes needs the ferry to the mainland. We are poised to assault Sardis then go bash that Pontus army for revenge. Our army poised to invade Thessolonica is infantry..the general is back at Larissa but available to fight. Spy might get us in without delay (40% change of opening gates)


Been building:
- Spies on Rhodes
- Militia Cavalry in Larissa
- Hoplites in Sparta (including 2 retrained last turn)..so an army there right now
- Ships.


Possible objectives
-Assault Sardis..we have a ram ready, and spy may open gates. Loads of missiles...make them count.
-Beseige Thessolonica...we have a spy who may open..cavalry and main general in range from Larissa and infantry army already made part of the march there.
-Invade Crete with an all Hoplite army
-Pirate bashing near Sparta (but attack might use MPoints so prevent Crete attack)
-Sicilly. Interesting. We dont control the seas yet...nearing parity. Do we leave our towns weak and go attack Lilybaum ? Romans ships nearby carry a total of three generals.

Over to you. Enjoy.

[Surlethe]

You know, talking through the strategies turn-by-turn is bound to be educational for others as well as for yourselves, since clarity is necessary for succeeding in this sort of game-swapping. May I suggest putting these back-and-forth posts up on a website to enshrine the Greek strategies? I think it would be quite an effective guide on Greek Cities VH/VH.

[Severous]

Thanks Nick

That very neatly deals with all the situations I put us in. :<) Thanks Nick. Armoured Hoplites. Cool. I see definate plans around your city build policy. Cities are designed for certain purposes. I on the other hand go for short term money/order gains and rarely build military buildings.

I had a go last night. Did a few alterations on the build policy. Really want more cavalry so changed the builds in the two cities that can produce cavalry..Larissa and Thessolonica. Havings some horsemen will take some of the strain off our generals.

I had no battles in my first turn. The AI moves and away we go with two big battles...so far. One played ..one not yet played.

Bylazora.

I have fought this one. My biggest ever. Write up tonight.

Sicilly

I have not fought this one yet. Found out this weekend from another forum member that you can save your campaign at the battle screen. As it was already too late after having faught at Bylazora I saved it like you can see it. There are no elephants in that Carthage army..two cavalry. I fancy my chances of earning some experience points.

[NobleNick]

@ Valinther and Surlethe --> Thanks, guys. We are having lots of fun, too. I don't know if I can continue to post as detailed accounts as Sir Severous.

@ Severous -->

On the first battle: Thank them for attacking before you poke 'em with those very long spears. Looks easy enough. I'll wait for your AAR. Heh, heh, heh: That solitary Cretan archer is all that is left of the full unit you handed over to me. Enjoy.

On the second battle: Cowabunga! Yes you will earn experience. Your two generals will be crucial. If there was any cover I'd hide everyone else; but I don't think you will be able to find any trees on that barren island. Be careful!

[Severous]

This battle has more men than any other I can remember. It is my only huge scale campaign which is definately making for bigger battles.

Here is the initial screen again. As its the army outside the town that leads the attack this will be an open field battle...not a sally.



Deployment predicted where the enemy would appear. Deployed away from them. Its also on top of a hill.


All the hoplites come out of phalanx mode so they can run to their positions nearer the steep part of the hill. Cavalry out front to engage the enemy cavalry and allow hoplites to form their line.


First Macedon cavalry unit was beaten by our General. Before the routers could be punished another Macedon cavalry unit approaches. It wont like the missile fire so will charge.


Greek cavalry retreats through the phalanx line just in time. The phalanx will kill the light cavalry.


And another cavalry unit will be wasted against the spears. The Macedon line is longer than the Greek one.


An opportunity to take down skirmishers and/or the enemy general. Our leader charges through the middle of the Macedon line without touching any spear units.


Our general has routed skirmishers and still fighting the enemy general. Noticed he has gone down a chevron..from 1silver to 3red. Must have lost a few very good men from the unit. I am concerned about my left flank. There is a general there plus more infantry overlapping that flank. So the one hoplite unit in my reserve is out of phalanx mode and running to that flank. Missile cav and skirmishers also go to that flank. Their numbers will shake the enemy morale.


AI overall general is now dead. Thats less morale and skill for the Macedons.


The line is holding up well. The left flank is strengthened yet the AI general is now coming in behind the line. Missile cav will try to draw them off but fail after casualties force its withdrawl. Salvation in the form of the Greek general is still some time away.


Not textbook phalanx formation. Enough to rout the Macedon General.


Our shortage of cavalry has meant routing Macedon troops can rally and attack again. Here our cavalry counter a flanking attack from a depleted Macedon cavalry unit.


Two Macedon generals from the city garrison. They do not attack the phalanx. I decide to try something I read somewhere...take the hoplites out of phalanx. Cavalry start to charge, put hoplites back in phalanx, cavlary hit phalanx. Cavalry die. It works OK...the hoplites take casualties from the heavy cavalry but they hold. The Generals rout.


It degenerates into a 'hunt' soon after. I was initially disappointed that the tired missile cav could not stop this general leaving the battlefield. This meant the city would be regarrisoned.


Heroic Battle. Good for the Generals traits.


Our lone archer gained an experience upgrade. Our General unit regained that experience level he lost early in the battle.

[Severous]

The Battle against Carthage on Sicilly went well. The Carthage forces marched to me, up a hill, being shot by arrows. They routed easily when cavalry charged. Deployment and terrain advantage were important. I had nowhere to hide....no forests. Deployed generals close to enemy and downhill. Deployed infantry away from enemy and downhill. This drew the enemy to me and downhill. Generals went behind the enemy lines to split up the forces. Generals took more casualties from the long range Baleric slingers than I liked. However the Carthage army split up and several units marched away from the infantry. As the main army approached I sent my infantry walking uphill. This meant the Carthage army had more walking to do...which was now uphill. My missiles had height advantage. As the armies came close my Generals completed their long run around the back of the enemy and crashed into the rear of the Carthage units highest on the hill. As Carthage had many low quality troops there were few extended fights.

Looks like a peltast took down the enemy captain.


Heroic Victory. .


With Famous battle marker


And a trait Decrease.


Ive not noticed one of those before. Normally you get trait increases as a reward after a battle....this was a trait decrease reward. The bad dubious courage trait had a negative effect on morale. It had previously been 'gained' after the general routed often during the sally battles. But now it has been decreased (cancelled out) by the good performance in the last battle.

Lost a sea battle. Sent a spy towards Cyprus...but pirates got me.