"Elite" units in the Roman Army

[Lockcaps]

Hi.

In Rome 1, if you played as the Romans your army was probably compromised mostly of legionnaires. They came in different qualities:
Early Cohort
Legionary Cohort
(First Legionary Cohort)
Praetorian
(Urban Cohort, almost identical to Praetorians)

Obviously this isn't really how it worked in the Roman Army - the legion had 4800 legios, and the only real anomaly was the First Cohort which was led by the most senior centurion and had twice the amount of legios.
In Rome 2, they are going for more historical accuracy, and while im glad we won't see stupid praetorians(large amounts) and urbans(lol) it creates a problem: You won't have as many units to choose from, you won't have that "special" unit you can use for really important thing, no unit that can really save the day, and imo this can be a problem.

Obviously we don't know exactly how things are going to work in Rome2. But for me, having that "special something" is fun, just not in the excesses like we saw in the original.

What do we do? A solution is already in the game - experience. Want to guard a bridge while your other troops get into position(or whatever important task you want to give a unit)? Sent your most experienced men! But this doesn't really solve it imo. You want your elite units to be good for "suicide" missions aswell- if you would just throw away your most experienced men it's not really a good option:
1. You just lost your "Aces" and it's going to take a long time before another unit gets to that status
2. They're "your" soldiers - you probably care more about them than the rest of your army.

And this is where Elite units come in. Units that, even fresh from training, are as good or better than your standard soldiers, that can you depend on, and perhaps have a few abilites that make them better suited for "special operations", but it doesn't matter that much if they die(if they died because you "wanted" them to) because you can get new ones fairly quickly. Now i know you want to say "But you have the prime cohort for this" - i believe their real purpose was in the middle of the battle, inspiring other units and generally "keeping it together", not something you send on solo missions.

I propose this solution:
In every legion, you can send a unit to "special training". This makes them unavailable for a few turns, and when they come back they are better than other troops - they have better offensive and defensive stats, are faster, have more stamina and morale, etc. They could also get a few special abilities - realistic ones, not "Rapid Advance" or stupid stuff like that(Every 5 minutes i get back all my stamina and run far faster! Realism!). I also think they should look different(black armor and shields/crests on their helmets or something)

But you can only have 1(maybe 2) of theese units. If 1 dies you can just appoint another.

Thoughts/opinions?

[Ichon]

No. Experience and the skills/bonus the various legions gains should be enough. If armies are recruited together now if you lose a single unit in that army the next unit should retain the bonus of the legion it is serving in but simply lose the experience of the exact unit it is replacing. I don't see any justification for such special units and why should they exist? Just to have something extra powerful really easily? Send in your most experienced unit with the best legion traits, if its a suicide mission then that is your own fault for poor planning.

[Sharpe]

No. Experience and the skills/bonus the various legions gains should be enough. If armies are recruited together now if you lose a single unit in that army the next unit should retain the bonus of the legion it is serving in but simply lose the experience of the exact unit it is replacing. I don't see any justification for such special units and why should they exist? Just to have something extra powerful really easily? Send in your most experienced unit with the best legion traits, if its a suicide mission then that is your own fault for poor planning.

Agreed with the experience. I am praying that experience plays a huge role in this game. There were instances when battle hardened Auxilia/Mercs out-performed Praetorians/Elites who were not regularly fighting.

[check_engine]

Agreed with the experience. I am praying that experience plays a huge role in this game. There were instances when battle hardened Auxilia/Mercs out-performed Praetorians/Elites who were not regularly fighting.

I also agree that I would like to see experience play a large role. Just as important to me though is that building upgrades no longer give massive amounts of experience to newly raised units. I understand the concept, but it just doesn't feel right in recent releases (shogun especially) where a unit that has been together and fighting hard won battles for 10 years and has say an experience level of 5 is beaten out by a newly raised identical unit from a better barracks and has an experience lvl of 7 or 10.

Good training makes a difference, but nothing beats the experience gained in practical application.

Just my two cents.

-Cheers

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

Really in the Marian-era Roman Legions, there was no special type of elite units like you would see in Republican Roman or Hellenistic forces.

The Praetorians could be considered elite, especially early in their history, but later they were notorious for their decadance and lack of activity.

Post-Marian, generally the whole army was supposed to be "elite". But, the differences broke down to the different Legions themselves. While being equipped in generally the same fashion, who was "elite" generally broke down to things you couldn't see with the naked eye like elan and combat experience.

I think this will play into CA's focus on valuing your individual Legions, troops that you have used in a ton of battles, above all.

[Yomamashouse]

I know there is debate about Antesignani and their existence, but I think you could justify having them in the game. They add a nice bit of diversity to the homogenous post-marian legion.

[Rorarii]

Really in the Marian-era Roman Legions, there was no special type of elite units like you would see in Republican Roman or Hellenistic forces.

.

not necessarily true, Rome would group elite allied troops into individual units, i think? Plus, while the triarii were the richest (aristocrats?) it could be said the Princeps were the most skilled warriors in the republican legion. Actually, anyone who was a skilled swordsman must be considered a better soldier than a spearmen who just thrusts and hides (behind his shield).

R

[Ichon]

Actually, anyone who was a skilled swordsman must be considered a better soldier than a spearmen who just thrusts and hides (behind his shield).
R

Why would you say that? Especially for the legions which had a very specific sword style once they had gladius. But even without considering that why would swordsmen be better soldiers than spearmen?

[Rhaegar1]

not necessarily true, Rome would group elite allied troops into individual units, i think? Plus, while the triarii were the richest (aristocrats?) it could be said the Princeps were the most skilled warriors in the republican legion. Actually, anyone who was a skilled swordsman must be considered a better soldier than a spearmen who just thrusts and hides (behind his shield).

R

Ridiculous statement, I'm pretty sure that the seleuceds had some Thorakitai walking around who really would have a different opinion on that:

http://www.google.nl/imgres?hl=nl&cl...9,r:2,s:0,i:78

[Rorarii]

Ridiculous statement, I'm pretty sure that the seleuceds had some Thorakitai walking around who really would have a different opinion on that:

http://www.google.nl/imgres?hl=nl&cl...9,r:2,s:0,i:78

and what does that prove ?? nothing!

Stupid boy!

spears can be broken, and were .. often

[Biggus Splenus]

Actually, anyone who was a skilled swordsman must be considered a better soldier than a spearmen who just thrusts and hides (behind his shield).

R

DO NOT AGREE!

Anyway, most skilled soldiers were effective at using both a spear and sword (eg. Roman Legionaries, Japanese Samurai, Persian Immortals, Greek Hoplite, the list is huge).

[Destraex]

What I want more than anything is for the legionary shield and uniform colours or what we know of them to be shown.
This will give you more than enough of an elite feel for each legion. Especially if you have two different legions on the field at once.

Almost every legion from what I understand had different shield patterns and a lot also did not use the red we have come to know.

You will then be able to tell immediately who your elite legion is. The X (tenth) may for instance have a green shield with gold lightening but no wings.

I do not want to see hooded fools on the field of battle assasinating veteran soldiers with little knives.

[rory o'kane]

The triarii were not the aristocrats - they were still middle-class troops, just the wealthiest and most experienced, and therefore generally considered the best of the three lines of infantry. The Equestrians served as Equites - which is part of the reason why until Rome started hiring foreign cavalry from the end of the 2nd Punic War onwards, their cavalry was pretty crap during the Republican period.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Whatever the elite units are, I hope they're not released with vanilla, and I hope we have to pay extra for them.
I love paying more for less.

[Steve Holt]

Hopefully there are a few special or unique units of legionaries which represent the famous legions such as the I, VII and X. like there was special regiments in NTW

[IGdood]

Hopefully there are a few special or unique units of legionaries which represent the famous legions such as the I, VII and X. like there was special regiments in NTW

DLC

[Aleron]

Pretty sure there will be praetorians, so there you have your elite unit.

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

Pretty sure there will be praetorians, so there you have your elite unit.

I could see there being a ton of different regional Auxiliary troops for the Romans.

Of course, this is sheer speculation.

[Ballacraine]

Truly 'elite' units should evolve.
Surely good equipment is important, but training & above all experience is what makes an elite unit.
They should not be available 'off the shelf.'
They should not be easy to obtain, and once you have them, they should be cherished and employed wisely.
It would be heartbreaking for a General to lose his favourite Legion.

Praetorians would probably have had the best equipment, whether they were always the best of soldiers is an entirely different issue.



Balla.

[Bethencourt]

Praetorians would probably have had the best equipment, whether they were always the best of soldiers is an entirely different issue.

Yes, frightening civilians and participating in political murders was not a big military experience. And at some point of the guard history, the Emperor's German Guard as Caligula's one was not pretorian.