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Thread: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

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  1. #1

    Default Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    I am posting a good arcticle on the cohors system by StrategyPage.com

    On the battlefield, cohorts assumed a formation about five hundred feet wide by fifty feet deep. In another departure from the manipular formation, the cohort formed a continuous front while engaged in hand to hand fighting. In action, the lines of the cohort rotated, allowing a fresh line to appear at regular intervals of about 10 minutes. The engaged line withdrew and fell to rear until its turn came again. No other opponent operated in this fashion, hence an attacking force was continuously faced with relatively fresh troops during the entire battle. Eventually the enemy could no longer stand the strain and would succumb to exhaustion. If they broke, the hasty disorganized retreat usually turned into a fatal rout.

    The first real test of the Marian tactical system came at Aix-En- Provence when a combined army of Ambrones and Teutones, numbering around 130,000 warriors confronted Marius consular army of six legions. The battle was one-sided and resulted in the extermination of both tribes -- Marius took 17,000 warriors prisoner and another 130,000 dependents. The following year, at Vercellae in the Po valley, Marius defeated the Cimbri, killing 140,000 and enslaving 60,000 warriors, and taking a like number of women and children prisoners. The German threat was removed. Marius was elected consul for the 6th time, and hailed the "Third Founder of Rome." The Marian tactical system became the model for the rest of Rome's history.

    It woudl be nice if the actual roman troops in the roman cohors could rotate and switch their position in order to refresh the first line with fresh men , reflecting this in a much higher stamina resistance in fights ...

    what do you think?

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  2. #2
    Civis
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    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    no.

  3. #3
    CK23's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lansa View Post
    no.
    lol.

    Anyway, back to a constructive post. I think it'd be very cool to see, especially since it was what made the Romans so unique in their fighting style...but I just don't see it happening.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by CK23 View Post
    lol.

    Anyway, back to a constructive post. I think it'd be very cool to see, especially since it was what made the Romans so unique in their fighting style...but I just don't see it happening.
    Why not?

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    Why not?
    I can imagine it being very hard to implement and very bugged. Remember how bad pike formations were in M2TW? Or the 2-line fire of the gunpowder units? Imagine constantly rotating men. They would get stuck and glitched constantly.

    I would support, however, having higher stamina for Marian Roman troops to represent the constant rotation.
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    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lansa View Post
    no.
    ^^

    My reasoning? I want the developers to work on IMPORTANT things in the game in the 1 year or so til release.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Great idea, historically relevant...

    However we have no idea how troop AI will handle formations. It is one thing to have units tighten up and present a shieldwall, its another to reorganize the entire unit rotating out troops. We also have no idea if "exhaustion" mechanics will go down to individual troops, or just be a unit wide "debuff" as it were.

    Too many unknowns really.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Fairly sure I saw in an article that this is being included in the game; one of the people who saw the Carthage siege video said they saw this happening
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  9. #9
    |Sith|Galvanized Iron's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    It will probably be in just becuase people saw it in HBO/BBC's Rome, however there is not much proof of Romans actually using this formation on even a semi-regular basic. For obvious reasons it's more of a drill yard manouver that is extremely difficult to pull off properly in the chaos of battle, perhaps the Spartans should be given this manouver instead since they were actually recorded as rotating men for resting.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Here is my brilliant argument for implementing this feature: It looks, so I wanna see that! Next question!

    Rotation of the first line should not be limited to the romans, because it could severely unbalance the battles. Maybe make this available as a tech for all professional armies and make it easier to research for the romans.

    I'd love to see a phalanx rotate with real world physics and laugh my ass of at the chaos that ensues. What about a rotating barbarian shield wall? The first line crawls back and the second line jumps over the first one in unison and then the third line goes on with the jumping and so on till the crawlers of the first line finally arive at the end of the formation. I think rotating suicide chariots with swords fastened to the hub of the wheel work even better.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron View Post
    It will probably be in just becuase people saw it in HBO/BBC's Rome, however there is not much proof of Romans actually using this formation on even a semi-regular basic. For obvious reasons it's more of a drill yard manouver that is extremely difficult to pull off properly in the chaos of battle, perhaps the Spartans should be given this manouver instead since they were actually recorded as rotating men for resting.
    Yeah. Thought the same. Only because we saw this in Rome, everyone beleaves this was the common maneuver. You be completly right to write that we have only few hints for things like that. This could be happend completly diffrent. It looks so easy, but would work only a few minutes. The enmies would recoqnize the weakness in that, and even in Rome we see that after a short time it is complete chaos anyway

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aemilius Lepidus View Post
    Yeah. Thought the same. Only because we saw this in Rome, everyone beleaves this was the common maneuver. You be completly right to write that we have only few hints for things like that. This could be happend completly diffrent. It looks so easy, but would work only a few minutes. The enmies would recoqnize the weakness in that, and even in Rome we see that after a short time it is complete chaos anyway
    Wow , great , now we all know where it come from the Drill manouver , I'ts just a hollywood invention ...

    Thanks , now that we know it we can throw our books from the windows .

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    You don't read exactly. I haven't said that they havent made manuevers. I wrote we can't say how they look like. As it looks like in rome, it is questionable, but have no idea how it has looks like, because i am not 2000 years old Yes we have the discribings of that, but they are not that explicit. The intention could be completly diffrent than the "Rome" Version.

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    The Rome series in the battle of philippi scene , portrays this roman century feature , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wQ_6cVXTQk , skip all the severall unprecise stuff and some wrong behaviours , but the rotating system is quite well represented ...

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    The Rome series in the battle of philippi scene , portrays this roman century feature , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wQ_6cVXTQk , skip all the severall unprecise stuff and some wrong behaviours , but the rotating system is quite well represented ...
    Dont forget this example too

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbSa9ZvSMaQ

    HBO Rome probably provided some short but accurate examples of a Legion fighting in Manipular style I Thought.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by General Sultan V View Post
    Dont forget this example too

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbSa9ZvSMaQ

    HBO Rome probably provided some short but accurate examples of a Legion fighting in Manipular style I Thought.
    I never knew that happened in the legion? makes sense though, don't want to kill off your best warriors through exhaustion. hmmmmm, only work for loose formation though, tight formations would be a "phalanx" affair.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Isn't this sort of more defensive formation?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorarii View Post
    I never knew that happened in the legion? makes sense though, don't want to kill off your best warriors through exhaustion. hmmmmm, only work for loose formation though, tight formations would be a "phalanx" affair.

    R
    The Roman Legion Rotated Its men to keep them fresh, this worked well against many enemies but was Most extensively used against the gauls, whom just charged straight ahead for the most part

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndh3b9wC-A0

  19. #19

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    Would be cool if this feature rotation of the roman fight style could be implemented ... Why? Because is even more important than representing the testudo formation , it totally represent the reason why roman cohorta had a muuuch lomger stamina and resistance than all other foes.... And is one ofnthe reasons of roman strenght on field...

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Will RTW II feature rotation changes in roman cohorts and reflect this as a bonus on exhaustion?

    That and the fact that as each legion was usually deployed in three lines of cohorts (4-3-3) i.e. the triplex acies, it meant that they could feed fresh troops in whenever they were needed.
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