Tips for Late Crusader States?

[CloacaMaXima]

Hi and thanks for this wonderful mod : )

I'd like to test out Crusader States in the Late Era for a bit, but since they're starting in a rather difficult situation (surrounded by Fatimids and Seljuks, with only few settlements and thus quite poor income), I'd like to know if people here have some survival strategies.

Migrating to a different region really isn't an option, since I want to roleplay a bit too. Retreat to Greece might be an option in extreme situation, but I'd like to hold on as long as I can.

I have Stainless Steel 6.4 + BGRIV and MSC 6.0 with 2tpy (and without the one settlement type) and increased movement ranges for characters.

[Judeman266]

Try to call a crusade on Cairo ASAP. Get the crusader buildings and try to pick up some of the Greek lands from the Latin rebels.

[Andytheplatypus]

Really your only option is to expand as quickly as possible. The turks will take out the Romans soon. The fatimids will attack you as they have no other direction to go when they run out of rebel settlements. If they attack you at the same time you wont stand a chance.

Call a crusade against fatimids and try to take them out as soon as possible. Your heavy cavalry can easily take out their spear militia stacks they will spam at you, but be careful of their general cavalry and horse archers. Use ships to slip your army behind their front lines and attack their settlements that are not heavily defended. Think guerrilla tactics. You will be outnumbered but you have better quality troops.

[Strengelicher]

I would like to add a third option: In a late Crusader States campaign (SS 6.4 vh/vh, BGR IV-E, Savage AI), I allied with the Fatimids (plus trade rights) right from the start, grabbed one or two nearby rebel settlements and then turtled for a while, building up my economy. Kept Jerusalem and Kerak as heavily garrisoned as I could afford to deter the Fatimids from any attacks. Also gave them money through a diplomat on a regular basis to keep relations high.

After a while, the Seljuks started a war against the Fatimids, taking their northern settlements. This made my regions adjacent to Seljuk territory. I decided that I must go to war with the Seljuks to stop their rapid expansion, while keeping peace with the Fatimids. I gathered some troops with catapults on a ship, called a crusade to Antioch (Seljuk) and waited one turn for all the Catholic factions to join the crusade and declare war against the Seljuks. The turn after that, I landed near Antioch, joined the crusade with my general and conquered Antioch. This ended the crusade, but with a small side effect: the Seljuks were now formally at war with a lot of factions.

What does a faction want when it is at war with many others? Peace, of course. After taking Aleppo, I immediately made peace with the Seljuks, and they gladly accepted (paid money for it, too). This was a fortunate diplomatic move, since the Seljuks had lots of troops in the area, and I would probably not have had the strength to defend against them without exposing Jerusalem/Kerak. Now comes a strategy which some may consider an exploit: The Seljuks, having freshly made peace, withdrew their troops. As soon as they were out of the way, I attacked Damascus (Seljuk), taking it in one turn (catapults), and made peace again (Seljuks were happy, so many enemies, and now one less, they even paid money for it). Rinse and repeat with Edessa, Adana and so on.

So, I took one settlement after the other from the Seljuks, all the time keeping peace and trade with the Fatimids. No Djihad was ever called on me. Now I am quite strong, the Seljuks are a mere shadow of their former selves. My reputation is excellent. I need not stress that my generals all have tremendous chivalry, as I never sacked or destroyed any settlements.

Was great for roleplaying.

Sultan: Infidel! You Christian dogs have taken Adana! Allah may have mercy on you that you dare show your face here, I could have your head on a stick!

Diplomat: O merciful Sultan, I bring a great gift from us infidels...

Sultan: A Gift? Your gift can only be poison, made from dogs by swineherds and traitors! What kind of gift could you offer me now, after taking Adana, the mother of fortresses? The crown jewel of my empire?

Diplomat: The gift is... peace.

Sultan: What?? Insolence! We will destroy you all! Crush your troops! Spill your blood!

Diplomat: Most noble sultan! Surely you would crush us like insects under your mighty boot. But would this be... wise?

Sultan: Hrgn? What do you mean? Is it a question of wisdom now to crush your enemy?

Diplomat: I hear mighty kingdoms in the West are gathering troops to bring death and destruction to your lovely empire. To pillage your rich palaces. To do unspeakable things to your favourite... um... dancer. Terrible, even to think of it. All the beauty brought to nothing. You could crush every single one of them under your boot, o sultan, for your boot is the greatest boot the sun has ever looked upon! But can you crush so many? And then... all those years of war... no time for eating sweets and spending time at your leisure...

Sultan: Well... erm. Then, what should I do? They have declared war already. They will come, sooner or later...

Diplomat: Not necessarily! O sultan, you are mighty, but in these dire times you need something else besides power. You need... a friend...

Sultan: Ah. Um... a friend.

Diplomat: Yes, yessss. A friend. A friend who understands these treacherous Christian conquerors. Who knows their schemes, their evil ways...

Sultan: I see. But how will I know I can trust this friend?

Diplomat: Ah. You can tell a true friend by the gifts he offers! Mind you, the gift of peace is not all I have brought with me. See these beautiful Christian virgin girls... [claps his hands]

Sultan: Ah... oh... uuuuhhhh...

[Byg]

You should use gracul ai to avoid that diplomatic exploit.

[Delvecchio1975]

You should use gracul ai to avoid that diplomatic exploit.

Doesn't that just end up in endless warfare with EVERY faction?

[Byg]

No.

[Strengelicher]

Until now I have refrained from using Gracul AI (always using Savage) because I feared that with the AI being too aggressive, the game would loose that "human touch". Now this may sound strange at first, as obviously the AI is not human anyway. However, to me it is important that diplomacy has at least a little bit of credibility, I do not want the factions I am negotiating with to behave like utter madmen. And the vanilla AI sometimes does just that. Granted, what the Seljuks are doing in my CS campaign is crazy, but as you can see from my little fantasy dialogue it can still make some kind of sense to me.

My experience with Savage was that - at least for me - it had more of a "human touch" to it than vanilla, hence I liked it. But maybe the time has come to try out Gracul, as I have succeeded with almost all factions on the highest difficulties with BGR IV-E and everything. And Byg has taught us: Only by losing can you truly win.

[nomercysniper]

Take gaza ASAP. I got it by turn 3 and it stops the fatimads getting horse archers and cavalry, and mean you can recruit more militia mashing (hm, i like that phrase) heavy cavalry. It also provides a good buffer for jerusalem.

I also negotiated a deal with venice, they get nicosia, I get ancona. Gives me a small european foothold. From there i took rebel pisa.