Do you think the normal battles will have actual tactics this time?

**Dbx125** · July 17, 2012, 07:39 PM

Basically instead of the usual "2 armies charge forward and a massive crush. Wait 1 minute and army X starts running"?

Im thinking of the very start of Gladiator the movie for example. That epic battle that takes place in just some random field in Germany. But its made to look epic because the Romans are all dug in on a higher position. It isnt just a clash of 2 armies. The Romans use their position and archers well and eventually ambush the Gauls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LxEaw0ircE

**DAVIDE** · July 17, 2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dbx125

Basically instead of the usual "2 armies charge forward and a massive crush. Wait 1 minute and army X starts running"?

Im thinking of the very start of Gladiator the movie for example. That epic battle that takes place in just some random field in Germany. But its made to look epic because the Romans are all dug in on a higher position. It isnt just a clash of 2 armies. The Romans use their position and archers well and eventually ambush the Gauls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LxEaw0ircE

In that movie, Roman and German infantries charge frontally............. probably it's not the best example you could do

**Alkaline Earth** · July 17, 2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by davide.cool

In that movie, Roman and German infantries charge frontally............. probably it's not the best example you could do

The German generals strategical command often was more than not an effective one word.

ATTACK

**RC-1136** · July 18, 2012, 02:35 AM

Please, please no Gladiator. The one (!) accurate thing in this movie were the earrings of Lucilla. The rest of it (everything else!) was just wrong. The fighting style of the Roman army, the equipment, the gladiator fights. They even managed to get the Colosseum wrong!!

**PROMETHEUS ts** · July 18, 2012, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by RC-1136

Please, please no Gladiator. The one (!) accurate thing in this movie were the earrings of Lucilla. The rest of it (everything else!) was just wrong. The fighting style of the Roman army, the equipment, the gladiator fights. They even managed to get the Colosseum wrong!!

How much wrong younare , altough I pass younthe fighting style that starts perfectly reproducing and ends badly with just a medieval like battlemayhem , the rest of the first introductory scene is very well portrayed and gives an actual realistic look how a roman time battle could look like.... But of course if you expected skirt and sandals madmen in the snow and nacked barbarians then is something else.... For me it is very realistic , plausible and historically correct , apart the guy with the watch ...

**RC-1136** · July 18, 2012, 03:08 AM

And that's the problem. Scott portrayed the Roman army the way a ordinary moviegoer would expect.

First of all: A medieval battle wasn't chaos at all. There were battle lines and no senseless Braveheart-Gibson-slaughter.

Back to Roman times. I didn't expact naked barbarians at all. But dirty, screaming morons without a sense for battle tactics is even worse. Thinking of it, naked barbarians would have been even more accurate!
Yes, the Roman army had catapults, and yes, they knew how to dig and how to form a testudo.
BUT! The whole equipment, (I won't start with the command structure because this would be ridiculous), the barbarian tactic (there is no such thing as barbarians!) and the Roman answer to this tactic were just wrong! Why did the Roman commander decide to lose all overview over the battle to lead a cavalry charge (bear in mind that this auxiliary!) through a burning wood just bombarded by his own artillery! Yes, it's a cool dramatic scene I really like but it doesn't have to do with history at all!

Next thing is the Roman infantry moving forward in some kind of unknown formation, using no pila at all, forming a nice (!) kind of testudo before battle, weren't able to get out of it to confront the enemy and end up in a chaotic battle. In the battle itself you can see some soldiers forming a testudo (the one we know) for no reason at all.

But enough of this nitpicking. The film is historical crap but a great (!) drama. Although the story is stolen from "The Fall of the Roman Empire"

**Ariovist** · August 01, 2012, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by thomascreel

The German generals strategical command often was more than not an effective one word.

ATTACK

Nice hollywood cliche.
Please forget hordes of charging savages.

The wedge, a form of a shieldwall, men with shield and spear in the front rank while other warriors with longer lances wielded two-handed behind them to form a massive wall of shields and spears.
That battle picture would be rather fitting for a germanic battle line.

One thing though to remember.
Germanic warriors only followed their leaders by example of valor.
So germanic leaders were naturally in the front.

**:jason:** · July 17, 2012, 07:52 PM

Im going to go out on a limb and say that Gladiator, entertaining as it was/is, was not the most historically accurate films about the Roman Empire.....just saying.....

**Lord Dakier** · July 18, 2012, 03:20 AM

Well the OP may of done that personally I use tactics and in Shogun 2 many times when my opponent is defending they have sat ontop of a hill covered with trees. It's quite annoying yet brilliantly smart for AI.

**maximusdecimusm** · July 18, 2012, 05:14 AM

I can almost always destroy the AI in a TW game with flanking tactics, unless I have very few units compared to them. I didn't really even need these tactics for FOTS as the enemy line was always hopelessly disorganised.

The AI made better use of hills in defence in S2 than before, but I found it pretty easy to lure them down with a hail of arrows.

What I want most of all is for the AI to protect its flanks properly.

**Veterānus** · July 18, 2012, 05:26 AM

MP Battles are the only real test of your generalship!

**Lord Dakier** · July 18, 2012, 06:06 AM

I agree, you ask for technology which no strategy game has. An AI that can still win without cheating.

MP drop-in is the only way. Although I was playing online in a 2v2. My opponent quit straight away and the game continued so as the AI does it went from our hill to the enemies. My human opponent challenged the AI thinking they could win. With my Fots units covering the AI while dealing with my own opponent we won pretty easily in fact.

**Veterānus** · July 18, 2012, 06:45 AM

Going OT: they really need to sort 'quitters'

**zg0301zg** · August 01, 2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dbx125

Basically instead of the usual "2 armies charge forward and a massive crush. Wait 1 minute and army X starts running"?

Im thinking of the very start of Gladiator the movie for example. That epic battle that takes place in just some random field in Germany. But its made to look epic because the Romans are all dug in on a higher position. It isnt just a clash of 2 armies. The Romans use their position and archers well and eventually ambush the Gauls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LxEaw0ircE

romans were superior due to choosing the battlefield, which is nice and open
you should read more of a sun tzu
since you mentioned the gladioator, you can see how roman army is trenched and have catupults ready, so you can`t exactly conclude that its random since it more then obvious its well planed

**Marcus Aemilius Lepidus** · August 01, 2012, 12:21 PM

For those in this forum who speak german:

Junkelmann,Marcus: Hollywoods Traum von Rom. "Gladiator" und die Tradition des Monumentalfilms, Mainz 2004.

Its basically an analysis how Hollywood and the Cincenati Studious in Rome work to made the visitors happy. They expect clichees like the Testudo, naked Barbarians and a lot of action. No Roman army would use these catapults in battle, they were siege weapons and i think the most people in this thread are aware of this.

**ScottishClansmen** · August 07, 2012, 06:16 PM

i find people online make a hobby of complaining
here is an animation of an actual roman battle that legitimately took place and is from a time and war well documented by historians.
http://www.theartofbattle.com/battle...ipa-206-bc.htm
notice how the narrator describes that for days the armies simply deployed and stared at each other
the fact is that neither movies or total war games will ever display the realness of ancient and medieval battles because if they did absolutely historically accurately, it would be the most boring thing any of you have ever witnessed. in fact the rapid deployment and instant battle scenarios displayed by TW games is most fitting to the modern era. the days of waiting and calculated tactics were tedious and time consuming and absurdly boring to endure, but it all was necessary for these true commanders to execute and win their battles. i am a fan of all the TW games and the movie Gladiator and others like it. it is entertaining and that's what its supposed to be. enjoy or dont but certainly dont complain about the lack of historical accuracy.