Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

**gaulsЯus** · July 17, 2012, 02:57 AM

One of the worst things about RTW (besides only 1 greek faction, ramzes egypt, no blood, unified barbarians and roman ninjas) was the fact that the greeks didnt use Macedonian type phalanx! The Macedon introduced 6 meters long Saris spears, greeks had 2 meters long spears overhead! CA MUST fix this, otherwise no amount of greek city states will take away from the fact that they are fighting the wrong way. Was i the only person pissed at this? They could look at some of the mods, best one for this matter being RS II because it had 50+ types of greek proper phalangites distributed between cities (spartan, athenian, corinthian, syracusan, massalian etc)

**Lord Dakier** · July 17, 2012, 03:16 AM

CA will fix this. The funds have more than doubled, the size of CA has increased greatly since Rome 1. I'm positive we will get not 100% historical accuracy but pretty basic things such as these atleast.

**AngryTitusPullo** · July 17, 2012, 03:21 AM

Yes. More funds means longer spears. This time they have the budget for that.

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · July 17, 2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by LestaT

Yes. More funds means longer spears. This time they have the budget for that.

**daelin4** · July 17, 2012, 03:38 AM

This is the first time someone's argued that the Greeks DIDN't use the Macedonian phalanx. AND stating it's the wrong way.

**kanzy** · July 17, 2012, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by daelin4

This is the first time someone's argued that the Greeks DIDN't use the Macedonian phalanx. AND stating it's the wrong way.

Really?

**Manuel I Komnenos** · July 17, 2012, 07:09 AM

By the way there was no such thing as hoplites in our era. Even those who didn't use the Macedonian phalanx adopted the armament of the thyreophoroi.

**neoptolemos** · July 17, 2012, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos

By the way there was no such thing as hoplites in our era. Even those who didn't use the Macedonian phalanx adopted the armament of the thyreophoroi.

Exactly!
Hoplite phalanx as we know it and Roman legions didn't actually met on the battlefield.

**Asgaroth** · July 17, 2012, 07:15 AM

They could fix two things here in my mind :

For the phalangites : they could add a two handed animation, and attach the shield to their arms. Because who would hold that long sarissa with only one hand ?

For the hoplites : they could add two animations - both the overhead and underhead. Ovearhead would be used when hoplites would fight in a tight formation when they close their shields as there is no space for fighting undearhead, but when the formations break they could add both undearhead and overhead animations for the hoplite to use freely. I think that they could actually make this in 2012/ 2013.

**Princeps** · July 17, 2012, 07:36 AM

I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.

**Lord Dakier** · July 17, 2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Princeps

I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.

Well I don't think they stood there in poking wars all day either!

**Biggus Splenus** · July 17, 2012, 07:44 AM

They definitely will. From what I heard about the effort they are putting into Roman formations, we can atleast expect the Greek Hoplite Phalanx to be represented properly

Originally Posted by Princeps

I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.

They done overhead jabs much more than underarm. You get more momentum, plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way

**Asgaroth** · July 17, 2012, 08:04 AM

They done overhead jabs much more than underarm. You get more momentum, plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way

I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.

Well I don't think they stood there in poking wars all day either!

So guys :

For the hoplites : they could add two animations - both the overhead and underhead. Ovearhead would be used when hoplites would fight in a tight formation when they close their shields as there is no space for fighting undearhead, but when the formations break they could add both undearhead and overhead animations for the hoplite to use freely. I think that they could actually make this in 2012/ 2013.

If they used overhead only it would look stupid as to see them walking arond like robots like that. I mean, my arm would fall off if I walked on the battlefield the whold time like that.

**Biggus Splenus** · July 17, 2012, 08:07 AM

U raise a good point

ok, to avoide arms falling off, they should give both animations for different circumstances

**Princeps** · July 17, 2012, 08:13 AM

You get more momentum

Pfft.

, plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way

It makes sense that only the second line in the formation might use overhand spears while the first would use underhand. Then you'd have like two spears in two different levels.

Otherwise, i think they'd use spears underhanded. It is more stable and you're less likely to poke your friend in the head.

**RC-1136** · July 17, 2012, 08:38 AM

I do not really understand what the advantage for a overhand use of your spear is. I am part of a living history and experimental archeology group (Augustean legionaries and 1st century gladiators) and fighting with the spear underarm is much easier - even when using it for a thrust from above.

But we can try to guess and experiment as much as we like. What about the sources? Do we have any evidence how hoplites really fought.

Edit: The guy in the videos has some points. But I wouldn't rely on him to much because I have seen a lot of his stuff and some of it wasn´t correct at all.

**Hanomean** · July 17, 2012, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by RC-1136

I do not really understand what the advantage for a overhand use of your spear is. I am part of a living history and experimental archeology group (Augustean legionaries and 1st century gladiators) and fighting with the spear underarm is much easier - even when using it for a thrust from above.

But we can try to guess and experiment as much as we like. What about the sources? Do we have any evidence how hoplites really fought.

Edit: The guy in the videos has some points. But I wouldn't rely on him to much because I have seen a lot of his stuff and some of it wasn´t correct at all.

There is a whole othismos (shoving) debate going on. So basically: no, we don't know how they fought. At least historians don't agree on how they fought. It would be a perfect project for experimental archeology, me thinks.

**Asgaroth** · July 17, 2012, 08:34 AM

Here guys, watch this videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmaYt...feature=relmfu

Watch this one from 0,40...the lower one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GU7o...feature=relmfu

About hoplite shields :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__mH8...feature=relmfu

About hoplite swords :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULsbH8ZbUEc

All videos are short so you can watch them.

**Phyrrus the Great** · July 17, 2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by gaulsЯus

One of the worst things about RTW (besides only 1 greek faction, ramzes egypt, no blood, unified barbarians and roman ninjas) was the fact that the greeks didnt use Macedonian type phalanx! The Macedon introduced 6 meters long Saris spears, greeks had 2 meters long spears overhead! CA MUST fix this, otherwise no amount of greek city states will take away from the fact that they are fighting the wrong way. Was i the only person pissed at this? They could look at some of the mods, best one for this matter being RS II because it had 50+ types of greek proper phalangites distributed between cities (spartan, athenian, corinthian, syracusan, massalian etc)

RTW 1 had 4 Greek Factions(Greek city states,Macedon,Seleucids,Pontus) and 5 Barbarian factions(Scythians,Germans,Iberians,Britons,Gaul) All of which were wrongly united of course