Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    One of the worst things about RTW (besides only 1 greek faction, ramzes egypt, no blood, unified barbarians and roman ninjas) was the fact that the greeks didnt use Macedonian type phalanx! The Macedon introduced 6 meters long Saris spears, greeks had 2 meters long spears overhead! CA MUST fix this, otherwise no amount of greek city states will take away from the fact that they are fighting the wrong way. Was i the only person pissed at this? They could look at some of the mods, best one for this matter being RS II because it had 50+ types of greek proper phalangites distributed between cities (spartan, athenian, corinthian, syracusan, massalian etc)

  2. #2
    Lord Dakier's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, England
    Posts
    4,463

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    CA will fix this. The funds have more than doubled, the size of CA has increased greatly since Rome 1. I'm positive we will get not 100% historical accuracy but pretty basic things such as these atleast.
    We Came, We Saw, We Ran Away!

  3. #3
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    13,018

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Yes. More funds means longer spears. This time they have the budget for that.


    CIVITATVS CVM AVGVSTVS XVI, MMVI
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites SVB MareNostrum SVB Quintus Maximus
    Want to know more about Rome II Total Realism ? Follow us on Twitter & Facebook

  4. #4
    |Sith|Galvanized Iron's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    I live in Kansas
    Posts
    4,710

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT View Post
    Yes. More funds means longer spears. This time they have the budget for that.
    Also responsible for the Roma Surrectum II Multiplayer mode
    Rest In Peace Colonel Muammar Gaddafi
    Forward to Victory Great Leader Assad!


  5. #5

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    This is the first time someone's argued that the Greeks DIDN't use the Macedonian phalanx. AND stating it's the wrong way.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by daelin4 View Post
    This is the first time someone's argued that the Greeks DIDN't use the Macedonian phalanx. AND stating it's the wrong way.
    Really?

  7. #7
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Athenian Empire
    Posts
    11,553

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    By the way there was no such thing as hoplites in our era. Even those who didn't use the Macedonian phalanx adopted the armament of the thyreophoroi.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  8. #8
    neoptolemos's Avatar Breatannach Romanus
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Seirios,a parallel space,at your right
    Posts
    10,727

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    By the way there was no such thing as hoplites in our era. Even those who didn't use the Macedonian phalanx adopted the armament of the thyreophoroi.
    Exactly!
    Hoplite phalanx as we know it and Roman legions didn't actually met on the battlefield.
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razăo,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Năo vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
    Luís de Camőes

  9. #9

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    They could fix two things here in my mind :

    For the phalangites : they could add a two handed animation, and attach the shield to their arms. Because who would hold that long sarissa with only one hand ?

    For the hoplites :
    they could add two animations - both the overhead and underhead. Ovearhead would be used when hoplites would fight in a tight formation when they close their shields as there is no space for fighting undearhead, but when the formations break they could add both undearhead and overhead animations for the hoplite to use freely. I think that they could actually make this in 2012/ 2013.

  10. #10
    Domesticus
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wretched hive of scum and villany
    Posts
    2,004

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.

  11. #11
    Lord Dakier's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, England
    Posts
    4,463

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Princeps View Post
    I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.
    Well I don't think they stood there in poking wars all day either!
    We Came, We Saw, We Ran Away!

  12. #12
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    3,547

    Default

    They definitely will. From what I heard about the effort they are putting into Roman formations, we can atleast expect the Greek Hoplite Phalanx to be represented properly

    Quote Originally Posted by Princeps View Post
    I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.
    They done overhead jabs much more than underarm. You get more momentum, plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way
    Last edited by Radzeer; July 17, 2012 at 08:45 AM.
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  13. #13

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    They done overhead jabs much more than underarm. You get more momentum, plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way
    I doubt that the hoplites ever used their spears overhead routinely. Just feels stupid.
    Well I don't think they stood there in poking wars all day either!
    So guys :

    For the hoplites : they could add two animations - both the overhead and underhead. Ovearhead would be used when hoplites would fight in a tight formation when they close their shields as there is no space for fighting undearhead, but when the formations break they could add both undearhead and overhead animations for the hoplite to use freely. I think that they could actually make this in 2012/ 2013.

    If they used overhead only it would look stupid as to see them walking arond like robots like that. I mean, my arm would fall off if I walked on the battlefield the whold time like that.

  14. #14
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    3,547

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    U raise a good point

    ok, to avoide arms falling off, they should give both animations for different circumstances
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  15. #15
    Domesticus
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wretched hive of scum and villany
    Posts
    2,004

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    You get more momentum
    Pfft.

    , plus you can hit them in the head/face/throat. Think about it, if your in a phalanx vs phalanx fight, what would u be able to hit with an underarm jab? There massive shields are in the way
    It makes sense that only the second line in the formation might use overhand spears while the first would use underhand. Then you'd have like two spears in two different levels.

    Otherwise, i think they'd use spears underhanded. It is more stable and you're less likely to poke your friend in the head.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    I do not really understand what the advantage for a overhand use of your spear is. I am part of a living history and experimental archeology group (Augustean legionaries and 1st century gladiators) and fighting with the spear underarm is much easier - even when using it for a thrust from above.

    But we can try to guess and experiment as much as we like. What about the sources? Do we have any evidence how hoplites really fought.

    Edit: The guy in the videos has some points. But I wouldn't rely on him to much because I have seen a lot of his stuff and some of it wasn´t correct at all.
    Last edited by RC-1136; July 17, 2012 at 08:41 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by RC-1136 View Post
    I do not really understand what the advantage for a overhand use of your spear is. I am part of a living history and experimental archeology group (Augustean legionaries and 1st century gladiators) and fighting with the spear underarm is much easier - even when using it for a thrust from above.

    But we can try to guess and experiment as much as we like. What about the sources? Do we have any evidence how hoplites really fought.

    Edit: The guy in the videos has some points. But I wouldn't rely on him to much because I have seen a lot of his stuff and some of it wasn´t correct at all.
    There is a whole othismos (shoving) debate going on. So basically: no, we don't know how they fought. At least historians don't agree on how they fought. It would be a perfect project for experimental archeology, me thinks.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Here guys, watch this videos :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmaYt...feature=relmfu

    Watch this one from 0,40...the lower one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GU7o...feature=relmfu

    About hoplite shields :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__mH8...feature=relmfu

    About hoplite swords :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULsbH8ZbUEc

    All videos are short so you can watch them.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Please change greek PHALANX from RTW 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gaulsЯus View Post
    One of the worst things about RTW (besides only 1 greek faction, ramzes egypt, no blood, unified barbarians and roman ninjas) was the fact that the greeks didnt use Macedonian type phalanx! The Macedon introduced 6 meters long Saris spears, greeks had 2 meters long spears overhead! CA MUST fix this, otherwise no amount of greek city states will take away from the fact that they are fighting the wrong way. Was i the only person pissed at this? They could look at some of the mods, best one for this matter being RS II because it had 50+ types of greek proper phalangites distributed between cities (spartan, athenian, corinthian, syracusan, massalian etc)
    RTW 1 had 4 Greek Factions(Greek city states,Macedon,Seleucids,Pontus) and 5 Barbarian factions(Scythians,Germans,Iberians,Britons,Gaul) All of which were wrongly united of course

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •