General Discussion, Announcements

[darnokthemage]

So, what do you people think about Breath of the wild? Kind of sad it did not come out earlier, some of the characters are pretty cool and could have been nicely incorperated in HTW.

[Eldren]

I wish NPC factions had more units.

Honestly, i wish the mod had more units in general.

Alternatively, the same unit could be available to multiple factions, with cosmetic changes. Avatar of Majora had something like that planned, but it seems Majora factions are very low-priority, so we'll have to wait for them.

Medieval 2 unfortunately has hardcoded limits on the unit count, which restricts us to figuring out how many we can allot per faction.

I don't think there is a actual hardcoded limit to how many units a faction can have. But there is a hardcoded limit to how many units can be in game. And there is only so many that can be reskined to fit in with other factions, With out it seeming to be out of place. :/ Other wise we could have maybe 2-3 as much units for each faction, maybe even more.
base M2 liked to give similar units to several factions. Like Knights with a faction reskin that only changed their colors and symbol on the troops so it would look like it belongs to the nation that trained them.... The Problem with that in HTW. is that a lot of units don't like to be Hired by other nations/faction Or are unable to be trained by said faction, Because non of those who live in your faction are of the Proper race/Culture/Livelihood.

Now there are some races/faction/units that could be multinational.
There are 4 major Groupings if I under stand it right.
1) Hyrule Could potentially, get troops from ordona and Lannora. Since they are stated in Lore to have a Good relationship and are client stats. Similarly, Lannora could maybe Give and get Troops from Zora Dominion and the Kingdom of Hyrule. Since both those factions are parent factions.
2) The Lizalfos, Deku Tribes, Kiroki and Fairies of Term maybe able to give/get troops from the each others roster. Since they have been know to help each other out in times where there is an out side power coming in to the Forest. But they would have to have a Proper alliance first. Since they are like the Greeks(Warring stats most of the time, only unite when a Bigger problem arises) in their relationship to each other.
3) The Darknuts have been know to have Dealings with the Gerudo, Zuna and the Moblins. And that's just the more major powers that respect them and are willing to work with/for them. The Darknuts are a multinational faction to begin with by them selves.
4) The Lybreana has the Potential to conquer, Colonise, and Utilise all nations and races. With their Doctrine, Methods, Ways of thinking and ruling. They maybe the most Tolerant faction and most capable when it comes to handling other races. When it comes to making them Servitude. As compared to the Darknuts. They are a Rival in that regard of being a Powerful multinational Faction.
5) There are other Ties and friendships between factions that I've not mentioned that have been shown to be real in the Zelda Series. Like the Gorons and Kiroki Being Brother like to each other. And how all "dark/non-peaceful" faction/races have fought on the same side from time to time, against the Factions known for their Enlightenment and Good will.

[Nihilem]

You mean that game which came out recently .... best selling stand alone title nintendo ever created..... Number 4 in metacritics for all times? That BotW? I think people like it .

I dont know if Neph actually has the game but the new sheikah monks look quite similiar to the ones from BotW so I guess there are parts of it already in game.

[UndyingNephalim]

All I will say on the matter is that I was expecting BOTW to be a step in the right direction, and somehow it's turned out even worse than Skyward Sword. I think it's my legit least favorite Zelda game other than Triforce Heroes, which I refuse to play on principle.

[darnokthemage]

How can it be worse then Phantom hourglass?

[UndyingNephalim]

For one I can't play the game without muting the sound. I can't believe how horrible some of the voice actors they got for the game are. Princess Zelda's voice in particular makes me cringe. I legit cannot even play the game because of how grating some of the voice acting is. Maybe if a no voice mod is made for an emulation or someone redoes all the voices with different (better) actors then I'll try playing the game again down the road. As of now I probably won't ever finish the game.

[Baron of Hyrule]

That's certainly fair, they should have stuck to the old style of speaking anyway.

Don't have the game yet but for me it's pros and cons are:

Pros: Link's a knight, mounted combat with multiple steeds(Cavalry ftw), you can wear soldier armor, enemy A.I is top-notch and amazing exploration possibilities.

Cons: Bad voices that harken back to the horrible days when last they spoke actual words(ugggh), waaaay too much magi-tech that throws my immersion off (i'd much rather have actual bombs and charcoal maps), weapons break without being able to fix them (as far as i know), no iconic Link hat and rupeeless grass & jars mean the Picori don't exist anymore. (Or near extinct.)

I like it overall, though.

Anyway, sorry to be away for so long, my internet was taken out by a storm. Also, yay, Picori!

[Eldren]

So about Breath of the Wild. Besides the Bad Voice acting. and the need to reacquire gear. Did the game fulfill the selling points of the game? Does it have what they promised it would have?

[Eldren]

For one I can't play the game without muting the sound. I can't believe how horrible some of the voice actors they got for the game are. Princess Zelda's voice in particular makes me cringe. I legit cannot even play the game because of how grating some of the voice acting is. Maybe if a no voice mod is made for an emulation or someone redoes all the voices with different (better) actors then I'll try playing the game again down the road. As of now I probably won't ever finish the game.

What Language does the Voice actors use? Can you change the games used/printed/spoken language? Like you can with movies.
Can you adjust volume of Music, Actions, Effects, and Dialogue independently from each other, Like you can on a PC game?
Is there any other options you noticed That you may recommend, that could possibly help alleviate this problem, For those who had the same problem as you?

Edit:
I just watched some videos of Zelda in game. And yes, Some would call her voice Whiny. But you have to remember that she is 1) A Girl, 2) A princess, 3) Has huge stress and may have lost every thing, 4) What do you expect out of a Person who has gone through what she has. Really! I mean that. She May be the most believe able and most life like out of all the Zelda Versions.

Now just to point out. I've never played the game. And have only seen some cutscene online.
On that Regard, Can some one post a link or provide Video of Zelda While she is speaking some of her Dialogue.
Can't compare with out Live examples.....

Edit2:
Ok. I get where Neph is coming from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwf2QDv5DfU
First Impressions. Yes it's a bit bad.... But I think the reason for the Sad like voice is her accent. I recognize it from movies with Norse Women. Or some other Culture Similar to them. Northern Europe somewhere. It's the way Some ladies of the court in some Movies spoke as well.

Edit3:
NEPH!!!! THEY REDID THE RITO!!! THE BIRD PEOPLE IN BOTW ARE RITO!!!
Looks like they may have taken a hint from you in your Realistic Envisions of races.

[UndyingNephalim]

As far as I know there is only Japanese and English voiceovers and you cannot switch between the two. Even if you could, both are horrible. The Japanese voices are high pitched and extremely shrill (again Princess Zelda in particular is the worst offender). The English voices are emotionless and boring or over the top and goofy. It really reminds me of Final Fantasy X, where they just didn't quite know what to do with the voice actors and everything came off as extremely awkward or forced.


I have a lot of other issues with the game, though most of them are technically extensions of Skyward Sword. The heavy insertion of Hylia for instance, as well as Ganondorf now being some vague primeval supernatural force that haunts the world instead of just some angry guy from the desert. Nintendo has basically did to him what Lucas did to Darth Vader and made him central to the freaking cosmology of the entire universe.


The general absurd lack of even basic consistency between games is also a pet peeve of mine, but again that problem goes way back to Skyward Sword and is more of a Nintendo problem then a BOTW problem. I mean we now have Rito and Zora living side by side, so much for the evolution between the two.

[Eldren]

I mean we now have Rito and Zora living side by side, so much for the evolution between the two.

Well it's not all bad. they did Fix kinda the stooped idea of that evolution.

I have a lot of other issues with the game, though most of them are technically extensions of Skyward Sword. The heavy insertion of Hylia for instance, as well as Ganondorf now being some vague primeval supernatural force that haunts the world instead of just some angry guy from the desert.

Well, On the other hand. People were tired of Ganon Being the main villain for almost all games. At least this way. Nintendo has tried to explain why Ganon just Wont Perma Die. And be done with.

[UndyingNephalim]

Yes, I would say this is an unintentional positive. I always thought the evidence that the Rito were descended from the Zora was very flimsy. It's based almost entirely around the fact that a symbol is present in both cultures, a symbol that the Rito could have simply just found in some ruins and liked the way it looked and so adopted it.
Even though it's an unintentional positive though, it just goes to show that the people in charge of this series give zero s if two games in their own series contradict each other. It's their series and they can do what they want, but it's just a pet peeve of mine that I dislike and I'll always dock a point against them for doing it. I'm spoiled by Tolkien's attention to detail.


For me it's the nature of Ganondorf now that irks me, not so much his overuse. As I mentioned it's really similar to what's happened with Darth Vader. Both characters were just some power hungry jerks that had a situational connection to their respective main characters. Darth Vader was just some random military commander who did the dirty work of the Empire and beat people up, Ganondorf was just some warlord from the desert trying to amass power and control.

Then Darth Vader somehow became a prophesied supernatural being integral to the existence of the Jedi and Sith. Likewise Ganondorf has somehow become a monolithic evil force of nature that has existed since the dawn of time to endlessly harass Link and Zelda. In both cases they took two characters who in the larger context of their respective worlds were just small cogs in a machine and then somehow elevated them to the point where they basically are the machine... the reason being that we the audience recognize who they are and are important to us.
And as a result it kind of ruins both characters because in a sense they don't quite have any free will. They are destined to be or become malevolent, rather than incidentally becoming so because of bad choices. And it makes me sad because they started to go in the right direction with Ganondorf with his backstory in Wind Waker, only to do a 180 with the introduction of Demise. Skyward Sword really ruined everything didn't it?

[Xavies]

Yes, I would say this is an unintentional positive. I always thought the evidence that the Rito were descended from the Zora was very flimsy. It's based almost entirely around the fact that a symbol is present in both cultures, a symbol that the Rito could have simply just found in some ruins and liked the way it looked and so adopted it.
Even though it's an unintentional positive though, it just goes to show that the people in charge of this series give zero s if two games in their own series contradict each other. It's their series and they can do what they want, but it's just a pet peeve of mine that I dislike and I'll always dock a point against them for doing it. I'm spoiled by Tolkien's attention to detail.


For me it's the nature of Ganondorf now that irks me, not so much his overuse. As I mentioned it's really similar to what's happened with Darth Vader. Both characters were just some power hungry jerks that had a situational connection to their respective main characters. Darth Vader was just some random military commander who did the dirty work of the Empire and beat people up, Ganondorf was just some warlord from the desert trying to amass power and control.

Then Darth Vader somehow became a prophesied supernatural being integral to the existence of the Jedi and Sith. Likewise Ganondorf has somehow become a monolithic evil force of nature that has existed since the dawn of time to endlessly harass Link and Zelda. In both cases they took two characters who in the larger context of their respective worlds were just small cogs in a machine and then somehow elevated them to the point where they basically are the machine... the reason being that we the audience recognize who they are and are important to us.
And as a result it kind of ruins both characters because in a sense they don't quite have any free will. They are destined to be or become malevolent, rather than incidentally becoming so because of bad choices. And it makes me sad because they started to go in the right direction with Ganondorf with his backstory in Wind Waker, only to do a 180 with the introduction of Demise. Skyward Sword really ruined everything didn't it?

Urgh, so much yes. It was less about Demise for me and more about Hylia, who got suddenly introduced as a fourth godess out of the Nowhere. Imagine my surprise when that happened. But i rather enjoy the Journey in the Games themselves rather than the fight against the Big Bad at the End. (I still pity Zant in Twilight Princess for being ursurped by Ganondork)

Incidentally you are still lucky with the english vocalization of BotW. I started out with the German One (Native Language) and my ears shriveled up and fell off, before i changed to the english One.

It is still not very good, but i can live with it.

[Link12]

Personally I don't think the concept of a fourth goddess came out of nowhere as we have the Goddess of Time (http://zelda.gamepedia.com/Goddess_of_Time) and I have always taken Hylia to have become that goddess.

[UndyingNephalim]

Urgh, so much yes. It was less about Demise for me and more about Hylia, who got suddenly introduced as a fourth godess out of the Nowhere. Imagine my surprise when that happened.

I think the problem here is probably more so the execution of the idea rather than the idea being bad from the get go. A fourth Goddess could be neatly introduced into the Zelda canon, but they made no effort to fit her into the continuity of other Zelda games. What's frustrating about it is that there are a bunch of simple ways it could have been done. Maybe Demise hated her so much that he erased all evidence of her from history with his magic curse power instead of using it to spawn Ganondorf endlessly. Maybe the Three Goddesses thought she did a terrible job and stripped her of her divinity and turned her into Zelda and made worship of her a crime. I dunno.... anything would have been better then "she's just here now and isn't mentioned in future games unless those games were made after Skyward Sword."
It's funny, here I said BOTW is nearly the worst Zelda game and yet almost every problem I have with it somehow goes back to Skyward Sword.

Personally I don't think the concept of a fourth goddess came out of nowhere as we have the Goddess of Time (http://zelda.gamepedia.com/Goddess_of_Time) and I have always taken Hylia to have become that goddess.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think most people assumed the Goddess of Time was Nayru back in the day before the introduction of Hylia.

[D_E]

The general absurd lack of even basic consistency between games is also a pet peeve of mine, but again that problem goes way back to Skyward Sword and is more of a Nintendo problem then a BOTW problem. I mean we now have Rito and Zora living side by side, so much for the evolution between the two.

This is definitely just a Nintendo thing. All of their early franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox) have extremely perfunctory excuse plots, and all of their early sequels just re-use the plot of the original game with only thin excuses given. A complete lack of concern for continuity in the Zelda series goes back at least to when Ocarina failed to set up Link to the Past, despite depicting the events from that game's backstory. Even the plot of the second game is just an excuse to have Link go rescue a different princess also named Zelda.

I mean, I also wish that they paid more attention to story and continuity, but for the sake of sanity it's important to remember that they've just never cared about it.

[UndyingNephalim]

A complete lack of concern for continuity in the Zelda series goes back at least to when Ocarina failed to set up Link to the Past, despite depicting the events from that game's backstory. Even the plot of the second game is just an excuse to have Link go rescue a different princess also named Zelda.

Looking back in hindsight I'm pretty sure that this is true, and it was fan projection that sort of formed this consistent narrative between games that was not really there. I suppose it was just a lot easier to connect Zelda games consistently back in the day since there were fewer titles, and nothing really outright contradicted other games. For example, the Master Sword had the same origin story since ALTTP until Skyward Sword came along.

All of their early franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox) have extremely perfunctory excuse plots, and all of their early sequels just re-use the plot of the original game with only thin excuses given.

I would actually say that Star Fox of all things was the one IP that maintained a pretty coherent canon and narrative between most of its games, which is surprising since the four linked games were all handled by four different companies who inserted wildly different styles of characters and events into the series. It even managed to avoid dredging up Andross as an all important antagonist in each game most of the time. That is until the recent reboot/reimagining/whatever-miyamoto-wants-to-call-it.

[Baron of Hyrule]

*

I'm spoiled by Tolkien's attention to detail.*

Haha, that reminds me of a comment I saw on Reddit.

"See, you're making a critical mistake.

Fantasy worlds have to make sense. Reality doesn't."

About the Zora and Rito, some people are pointing out it still makes sense as split evolutions are a thing and the Zora in the game are very much different from past ones. (Kinda look like the deceased queen Zora in TP, actually)

Ganon would have been okay as it's made clear he's going all out to destroy Hyrule this time and went with this ultimate incarnation that puts any further reincarnation at risk since he can be destroyed permanently this time, however...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the end tells that he will return anyway which kinda defeated the point of his gamble.

I was hoping it'd be a case of Calamity Ganon shedding it's humanity for that power and Ganondorf made from those shreds and to be free of it.

[Bloodly]

I wish NPC factions had more units.

Honestly, i wish the mod had more units in general.

It's kinda funny. With the changes to the Tokay meaning they have something resembling a complete force (melee, ranged(javelins and actual ranged in the Slingers, pseudo-cavalry in the Bonkers, can initiate Diplomacy) they are now the most interesting NPC force.

You haven't seen funny till you've seen the mighty Maku Tree of Labrynna taken down by a single unit of bonkers, a single unit of Slingers, and a single unit of Hunters. If I had any doubts that the General doesn't inherit the HP of his 'unit', they're gone now.(I've also seen Hylia be killed by moving into her own units with no enemy interference). Not that it would especially matter even if it had +HP traits. Sooner or later, the shots would get lucky enough times. Worried about the big bad monster? Shoot it.

Extra Hilarity: Because the health penalty on the factory is locked to Labrynna only, it means the Tokay(or anyone else) can run the thing without screwing up the enviroment.

[Link12]

I agree with your sentiments Neph; however for me the story does not detract from the gameplay and my enjoyments of the games. I think the only zelda game in my mind that I hate is Skyward Sword for its linear gameplay and absence of zoras.
I can only hope some elements of BotW are used in H:TW in a context you find suitable.

May I also say I love that you have included female generals.