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[D_E]

Looking back in hindsight I'm pretty sure that this is true, and it was fan projection that sort of formed this consistent narrative between games that was not really there. I suppose it was just a lot easier to connect Zelda games consistently back in the day since there were fewer titles, and nothing really outright contradicted other games. For example, the Master Sword had the same origin story since ALTTP until Skyward Sword came along.

The Master Sword was actually one of the things I was thinking of: ALTTP claims that it was created in response to Ganondorf gaining the Triforce, but that it was unable to be used for want of a worthy wielder. Ocarina shows the opposite on both counts: it predates Ganondorf (by a lot) and it WAS used against him. (...Or at least, the English-language manual claims that. I think that's not considered canon these days; but even if that's true, if Nintendo cared about canon they wouldn't have shipped a non-canon storybook with every copy of their game ).

Ocarina also ends with the Triforce in three pieces, and with Link and Zelda (and Ganondorf) each having a piece; ALTTP shows the Triforce whole and in Ganon's possession. Also, the sages in Ocarina are mostly non-human, while their descendants in ALTTP are human. A war between the Knights and Ganondorf's forces probably happened during the time skip in Ocarina, but the sages weren't around yet and it had a different outcome than the one described in ALTTP.

I'm not really sure what my point is, since I also wish Nintendo would do better with continuity in the Zelda series, and I also think Skyward Sword was a mess. It's just... it really has always been this way.

(Ironically, I think Skyward Sword is such a mess in large part BECAUSE they decided to give more focus to the lore. They ended up proving how little they knew or cared. I like to say that Skyward Sword committed the cardinal sins of both story-focused games and lore-focus games: They tried to make a story-focused game without focusing on the story (and on making it good), and they tried to make a lore-focused game without studying the lore. In the end, though, I think that the game's main problem on that front is bad writing, and that a sufficiently good writer could have salvaged their somewhat ham-handed lore additions. I think it also really suffers from having the wrong main character. The story they wrote is about Zelda, Impa, Hylia, and Demise; but the camera stays glued to Link. Even while Groose is around, which is really just an extension of the same problem, but deserves special mention since the game would be, like, 20% better if they just cut away to a nice field of wildflowers or something whenever Groose was around.)

(D_E has almost completely purged Ghirahim from memory)

I would actually say that Star Fox of all things was the one IP that maintained a pretty coherent canon and narrative between most of its games, which is surprising since the four linked games were all handled by four different companies who inserted wildly different styles of characters and events into the series. It even managed to avoid dredging up Andross as an all important antagonist in each game most of the time. That is until the recent reboot/reimagining/whatever-miyamoto-wants-to-call-it.

I was thinking about the original Star Fox vs. Star Fox 64, and also Star Fox 2 vs. the original Star Fox. That might well be unfair, since 64 is clearly a remake of 1 and 2 was never released, but does go to my point about how they were just re-using the same plot over and over again.

The overall impression I have of Miyamoto is that he'd happily make iterations of the same few games over and over again. I think he's on record as being against having an overall timeline connecting the various Zelda games, ie, I think he always considered them variations on the same story, rather than parts of a larger story.

Yes, I would say this is an unintentional positive. I always thought the evidence that the Rito were descended from the Zora was very flimsy. It's based almost entirely around the fact that a symbol is present in both cultures, a symbol that the Rito could have simply just found in some ruins and liked the way it looked and so adopted it.

I think the main evidence was that the previous Earth Sage was a Zora, and that Medli was stated to be a descendant of hers.

[Eldren]

I think the main evidence was that the previous Earth Sage was a Zora, and that Medli was stated to be a descendant of hers.

Ya. Zoras to sum extent, are known for liking and falling in love with other races. Wouldn't surprise me, if a Zora had a Kid some how with a Rito. Even if it was only by adoption.

[Codeman11]

The voice acting in the new Zelda is very minimal, so i don't see a reason to complain. I also really enjoy the new aproach to the formula, even if it means derailing quite a bit.

[Baron of Hyrule]

Oh ho, just saw horse god Malanya. Lots of Majora's mask vibes from that guy.

[Eldren]

Oh ho, just saw horse god Malanya. Lots of Majora's mask vibes from that guy.

Is he any thing like Malon? Or is there a Connection to her?

[Baron of Hyrule]

He appears to be like one of the great fairies but instead of a woman he's a skeleton/ghost entity with a colorful poncho and horse mask on that looks like it came from Majora's mask.

He revives horses that have been killed and will call you out if you're the one who killed it.

He'd be a neat fit for the Majora faction or any of the undead. Doesn't really fit the "fairy" aesthetic.

[Aquos4]

I think a massive problem with Zelda continuity as of Skyward Sword (throwing in my two cents, I think Skyward Sword has a terrific story if look at it on its own in a vacuum from the rest of the series) and Breath of the Wild is that perhaps Aonuma and Miyamoto have found a direction they went to take the story but that direction contradicts previously established canon. If they were capable of doing a complete and total reboot, completely wipe the timeline and start from scratch (or at least from Skyward Sword as a base) then I think it'd probably continue to follow a similar path post-BotW.

If I were to take a guess, they weren't planning on creating an overarching story across games aside from direct sequels like Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time and Phantom Hourglass (and, to such a lesser extent that it might as well be irrelevant, Spirit Tracks) to Wind Waker. When they decided they did want to do that, there was so much of a mess to clean up that they didn't really know what to do and I think the official timeline, as much of a fuster cluck as it is, was their first step in making an attempt.

[Nihilem]

From a lore perspective I really like how they give so much more character to the single races. The beauty-fanatic, long living and melancholic zora who grieve more about ..... an importand person .... then the destruction of the world in contrast to the pragmatic gorons or the independet gerudos ..... it is hard to describe but all the details really fit in this game. (Also finally the races have also elderly people and children running around in their villages).
Also like the humor really much. Even if it is really dark in comparison.

Of course if the overarcing lore fan you might be disappointed that the previous lore is ..... pretty much ignored .... but I think Nintendo will never fix that. Also didnt have problems with the voice overs but I am german ... so dont know the english version.

Nevertheless, this games gameplay and love for detail outclasses every other zelda game by lengths and it is in general hard to find a game that can compete with that.

@Eldren: No .... at least not that I have found it. There are a lot of stables with a few of horse fanatic girls in it but nothing like Malon.

[Codeman11]

i think it's ironic how you're all complaining about Zelda going in a new direction, when all I've heard beforehand are complaints about the staleness.

[Nihilem]

Thats in general because you only complain about things that you dont like. Which is the reason why there are so much more complaints then positive feedback in the internet. The people who like the changes are busys playing .... but I dont see where you get the feeling that BotW is received abnormally negative. From my experience most zelda forums (and non zelda communities) are quite positiv about the game and the direction nintendo is taking it. Besides the usual nitpicking.

[Apani]

So, I just gave a look to Labrynna and saw that railways had a strat map model. Love the attention to detail!

[DarkInterloper]

So, I just gave a look to Labrynna and saw that railways had a strat map model. Love the attention to detail!

Yup! Sadly you can't add choochoo trains unless you want everybody to use them.

[Thirteen1355]

Zelda lore began showing some cracks after Majora's Mask. Sad to say it, but two of the best 2D Zelda games (the Oracles) was when the story began to mess up.
Still not sure when it really went wrong, though.

I'm still not sure whether or not I will be picking up Breath of the Wild. The voice-acting certainly puts me off. Whiny Zelda is annoying (also, being a girl doesn't mean you constantly whine).
The gameplay seems to be pretty neat, though the thing I like most about Zelda (dungeons), they clearly messed up. No unique architecture, instead you have four samey, bland robot creatures. The best thing about games like Majora and Ocarina was that the dungeons all had a story to tell. They felt filled with history, lore and significance.



Labrynna having railways makes me wonder if they're related to the Lokomo...

[DarkInterloper]

https://youtu.be/AVseQ3RDa6s
Commandant, you may begin the Cleansing. Let no living thing escape.

[UndyingNephalim]

https://youtu.be/AVseQ3RDa6s
Commandant, you may begin the Cleansing. Let no living thing escape.

Thank God for Jim, the one true Goddess of Hyrule.

[Nihilem]

Ok as I now finished 99% of the story in this game I agree with Aquos that the producers of Zelda just dont like the old lore any more and actually want to start with Skyward sword as an foundation. So a complete demolishment of things that were would probably be a better way to thread the situation ... probably better than that half-hearded inclusion which we have now ....

On the one side that would be sad for all the great lore that would be lost.... on the other side I really like the personality they gave to the characters, the races and the world - so if they can start anew they probably can do a much better world building. At least I a really corious what the dlcs will bring for new stories.

[Thirteen1355]

I just heard the ruins of the TP dungeon Arbiter's Grounds can be found in Breath of the Wild.
I don't know what to think. Nintendo obviously doesn't care about the mess of a story they have created, yet suddenly they put in a thing that will get many fans to do days of detective work once again. "Why is Arbiter's Grounds here? Why is it in ruins? Blah blah blah."

I don't understand. I rather see Nintendo just letting the lore of Zelda die, instead of torturing it by suddenly pretending they actually do care.

[Zolrolt]

It's buried under sand and you can only see pillars and such at the location. Timeline wise I guess they chuck it in the child timeline as they added in Rito to TP murals in the HD version. Tho it still contradicts that with the entire sage thing - although they left a window where this could be chucked into downfall by having a game dealing with the Twilight Realm slapped in there. Also haven't found translations of a lot of text in the game like the tablets in the Gerudo chief's room, well if they haven't filled those places with memes too. Well at least the overworld leaves plenty of theories to chase such as why are Akkla's cannons facing Zora's Domain (Ones using cannonballs - not that Sheikah laser beam tech)?

But it could have been much worse - looking at that Zelda conference thing where they had biker Link, space suit Link and so on. I'm somewhat half convinced that BotW was going to be a game about an alien invasion apocalypse thing til the right people got talked out of it after seeing the images from the conference.

Also some retcons coming from Hyrule Encyclopedia. Wind Tribe and Kokiri "evolved" (I'll give it 5 years till we find out that Zora and Gorons evolved from Hylians too somehow.) from Hylians. Kokiri were made ageless by the Deku Tree, also the die from leaving the forest is a lie, just a way to protect them - tho they would begin to age when outside until the Forest Sage+ New Deku Tree allowed them protection outside the forest. Oracle's now happens after LA. River Zora are just Sea Zora gone insane in downfall - there were good Zora but post ALBW what was left were being overwhelmed. Deku are plant's inhabited by spirits and is a lottery on what their disposition is. Any race in SS that's not in any of the other games either left Hyrule or became extinct. Dark Interlopers sealing is between OoT and SS - tho I think that's the same placement. Triforce is heavily implied to be destroyed post WW. Dunno if it was explicitly noted that the Sheikah were used as assassins before like they say in HE. Gorons as a race are older (Not agewise - timeline wise) than Zora. Oocca had contact with Hylians before they made the cities they built on the ground float. Explicitly says that the Twili and Sheikah have no relation. Ganondorf's reincarnation cycle deal is fueled by the hatred that happens within the evens of OoT.

Hero's Shade is still the Hero of Time but is now categorized as Stalfos along with the rest of Ikana. Gerudo were robin hood like thieves til Ganondorf somehow - also were kicked out of the desert before TP. Termina is a world made from the mind of Skull Kid and Majora's power, on the 4th day the world is being powered by Skull Kid's and Link's emotions and vanishes once they leave. I can't even think of what to say about that. So all this before BotW is added in the mix.

The lore of Breath of the Wild seems a bit sane now compared to this. And they have one more book to go. Weee.

[Thirteen1355]

So this HE thing is all newly-added lore in the official Zelda franchise?
I'm kinda surprised with Nintendo's idea about the Deku Tree actually lying to the Kokiri. Sounds more like a HTW thing. I mean, Nintendo's 'good' characters are usually 100% good. No lies, no trickery.

[Zolrolt]

Apparently, it's like HH except I'm pretty sure it already contradicts stuff in HH like the timeline change. There's nothing about BotW in it as far as I can tell as it came out right before the game in Japan. The third book apparently will elaborate on the stories of all the games (First one was just artwork from what I can tell.). As for the Deku thing it makes the most sense as an explanation for OoT's ending with Mido I guess. Eh the stuff in these books will probably be ret coned too whenever another lore book comes out.