Thought on avatar system

[zaript]

Hello, everyone.

I like to think about stuff. So, this time I thought about what can be done to avatar system, because I don't particularly like current one.

If you interested in some thinking without clear conclusions, you can watch the video I recorded or read short version of it right here. Here we go.

Avatar system, Blood Bowl edition.

What is it about:
- there are not that many veterans slots
- you don't have full control over upgrades that your veterans get
- veterans can die
- veterans die a lot in serious battles

What is leads to:
++ there are real management in the game
+ teams(armies) get individuality
+ you actually benefit from knowing your opponents veteran set
= MM life become more unlinear: instead of fighting against players who farmed "ideal" vet set, while you farm your own, you get times of power and times of weakness
= tournaments become tricky, but at the same time more exiting, as real sport tournaments with traumas and substitutions
- it leads to some frustration

So my crazy suggestion is: let us rise our armies and loose them! Make us care for them and part ways with them! Let us play some management games in avatar conquest!

P.S. Remember this if you decide to reply: "The fool looks at the finger that points to the sky".

[xccam]

Avatar system was the worst thing to happen to Total War Multiplayer IMHO.

Playing in a Rome: Total War clan remains probably my fondest total war memories. Noone started with any advantages over the other, it was just you and your opponent and your skill ( and a pinch of luck ) to separate you.


Also bloodbowl is awesome, but the system works for that, not total war.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Avatar system was the worst thing to happen to Total War Multiplayer IMHO.

Playing in a Rome: Total War clan remains probably my fondest total war memories. Noone started with any advantages over the other, it was just you and your opponent and your skill ( and a pinch of luck ) to separate you.


Also bloodbowl is awesome, but the system works for that, not total war.

I do not shar eyour toughts I think its a fun and immersive thing instead and I actually like a lot , not a fun of the modern version ofmthe daimyis tough...

[SturmChurro]

I do not shar eyour toughts I think its a fun and immersive thing instead and I actually like a lot , not a fun of the modern version ofmthe daimyis tough...

I have to agree. I loved being able to fully customize my general, however I do think it needs some huge balancing. Often when I started I would get match made against opponents with MUCH better units. No, I am not going to just blame the units part of the reasons I lost was because of my own actions. Now, I, after having taken several provinces and upgraded my army quite a bit, am putting the hurt on some beginners or lower ranked players. My Samurais rip through their blobs of ashigaru units like it is butter (Through matchmaking).

Anyway, I think the avatar system would be nice in Rome II with some heavy balancing, as I said. Maybe more focus be put on the classic style of multiplayer as well than it is in SHOGUN 2. I would also like to see a comeback of FFA.

[zaript]

Well, I can easily agree, but I don't believe they will throw away system that gives "sense of progression". I would like to think they would, but...

Idea of evolving team(army) is more about long time strategy, while things that happen on the field might as well be called tactics. So, I still want to think, that there is a way to solve this puzzle without destroying competitiveness. I just don't know how, and that is why I try to start discussion.

[warrior6]

i stopped playing shogun 2 online because of it. avatar was a cool "mode" but it should.not be main forum of ranking. too many variables that arent skill based

[lazerBAR]

^ agreed, One of the many reasons I stopped playing shogun 2 altogether.

[zaript]

Well, from tournaments, that are hosted by Pariya, TWCC, BETA and some russian resources, I have got a feeling that game is actually quite skill based on higher levels.

I feel like most of the randomness come from LoS issues, not from avatar system itself. And ranking broken by the fact, that Shogun 2 is essentially p2p game with all its drop-haking, and that again has nothing to do with avatar system itself.

My main complain with it is that avatar system is too static. It adds complexity and farming, but offers no real variability.

[Scorpionet]

The avatar system is fine for the casual player .... but the opinion of the players who really like the multiplayer is another.

You just have to see the inactivity of many clans with reference to the tournaments with Shogun 2. The vassals and veterans should have the expiration date ....

P.D. A survey on the avatar would be nice .....

[zaript]

The question I got - why people who like multiplayer don't just play classical battle with each other in Rome style?
I am not sure if it is a right thing to do to put a line between casual and hardcore players, since hardcore players aren't born in a vacuum, but I got the idea.

And yes, I think that veterans should certainly die one way or another

[krisslanza]

Frankly if Shogun 2 didn't have the avatar thing, I probably wouldn't bother with it. And even with it, veterans die just as easily as any other unit in the game.

[zaript]

They do die easily, but still what can beginner do against strong gen + katana hero + cav hero in vanilla, and how beginner should catch 150 range imperial guard in fots?
And is there any reason to bring skirmishers in fots instead of 150 line units?

Avatar system idea isn't bad, but it's current implementation certainly use some redesigning.

[warrior6]

i stopped playing because with the avatar system you had some broken traits right in the beginning of the game as well. someone who had fugu cook vs someone who didnt was pretty bad.

the only thing that should limit what unit you can have not have is money and faction.

im not saying there shouldnt be avatar system but it needs to be seperate than the automatch 1v1

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

I think that veterans should only get like 3 basic upgrades opportunities, with the basic options of melee defense, morale, attack, range, reload, accuracy, charge.

Then once it reaches it's 3rd level it can gain experience in a battle and gain another advanced upgrade, but it would only last the next battle. So it can do stuff like start out with more units or raise morale around it or lower enemy morale.

I also firmly believe there shouldn't be any clan tokens. That just seems like a broken system and forced the player to make/join a clan. Not to mention it was frustrating when you lost or wasted your clan tokens.

I also feel a similar thing for the general skill tree.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

The avatar system gave unfair advantages to players, a proper multiplayer has to be balanced. The avatar system is far from balanced.

[BJas]

It's just a new feature, one which you can choose to use or not.

[lazerBAR]

If they include avatar system they should at least make it cosmetic only. I dont want to have to fight a guy that has better units available to him than I do(since not everyone has the time to keep playing multiplayer just to unlock more units.)

[zaript]

By the way, in OP I actually try to discuss a way to balance Avatar system