Political/Governor/General system in Rome 2.

[Shocked]

The best way to go about this in my humble opinion is to have Rome as a single faction, but with powerful families competing to become Governors, Senators and Generals.

When you decide to create a legion you should be able to choose from a pool of noble families to lead it (on the list it'll show things such as command rating, loyalty and personal attributes) this kind of system was used in Napoleon total war to recruit Generals. Same thing goes for choosing the Governor of a province, should be able to select from a list of noblemen.

Among the most powerful families you have to do a balancing act, making sure not to make one family too powerful otherwise there will be dire consequences (civil war). The system only affects the recruitment of Generals, not how you use them. E.g you've recruited 5 Scipii Generals to lead armies but only one Julii, then tensions will rise.

I feel like there is more I can add to this, feel free to chip in with ideas along the same lines.

[Heinz Guderian]

I never played NTW. Can you explain a bit more? You chose a nobleman as a general and they raised an army automatically?

[Shocked]

I never played NTW. Can you explain a bit more? You chose a nobleman as a general and they raised an army automatically?

Strong sarcasm/10. I meant the recruitment of generals, not the raising of armies.

That would actually be a good idea, could you expand a little more.

I'll have to think on it some more

Great idea! There should be a whole host of consequences, both good and bad, for promoting a member of a certain family. I guess the families have a large number of seats in the senate and vote as a response to your actions (i.e. granting positions such as general or governors), so you aren't totally free in your actions. I guess this holds true as long as you are playing a republic and less so playing as a dictator.

Anyway, there should be more pros and cons, like not being allowed to start a war, or to raise another army, or to develop a certain province more, basically everything that the senate votes on. Everything you do could piss somebody off, but you get more income, or special units, or whatever as a reward for dealing with the politics of a republic.
You could even try to assassinate or blackmail certain "aristocrats" like shown in the trailer from CA. What about female agents that are used to find out some dirty secrets of certain nobles? Upon the discovery of these agents the player himself would loose reputation and influence.

There is more for others to talk about.

I don't want this to become too big a part of the game, just something to be mindful of, I don't want it to affect the raising of armies or anything like that. If they were to affect you raising an army they might as well rebel openly.

[Gaius Augustus Caesar]

That would actually be a good idea, could you expand a little more.

[UghUghUgh]

Great idea! There should be a whole host of consequences, both good and bad, for promoting a member of a certain family. I guess the families have a large number of seats in the senate and vote as a response to your actions (i.e. granting positions such as general or governors), so you aren't totally free in your actions. I guess this holds true as long as you are playing a republic and less so playing as a dictator.

Anyway, there should be more pros and cons, like not being allowed to start a war, or to raise another army, or to develop a certain province more, basically everything that the senate votes on. Everything you do could piss somebody off, but you get more income, or special units, or whatever as a reward for dealing with the politics of a republic.
You could even try to assassinate or blackmail certain "aristocrats" like shown in the trailer from CA. What about female agents that are used to find out some dirty secrets of certain nobles? Upon the discovery of these agents the player himself would loose reputation and influence.

There is more for others to talk about.

[Keyser]

We shouldn't expect something as complex in this total war title though.
But that would be certainly the best way to explore the roman faction and especially the late game. Political strife and civil war could make up the end game when the whole map is almost entirely conquered.
In a less detailed mode, that could also give some depth to others factions (carthage might work similarly, tribal confederations turning into powerfull kingdom with fighting between family members, you could have also civil war in hellenistic kingdoms etc).
The shogun family tree with generals and titles and empire government screen with ministers, could be worked up in that way, with a senate, elections, offices etc.

[Shocked]

We shouldn't expect something as complex in this total war title though.
But that would be certainly the best way to explore the roman faction and especially the late game. Political strife and civil war could make up the end game when the whole map is almost entirely conquered.
In a less detailed mode, that could also give some depth to others factions (carthage might work similarly, tribal confederations turning into powerfull kingdom with fighting between family members, you could have also civil war in hellenistic kingdoms etc).
The shogun family tree with generals and titles and empire government screen with ministers, could be worked up in that way, with a senate, elections, offices etc.

I'm all for not having it be too complex, a simple version of my idea would satisfy me. This system would create more strategy in the campaign though. Making smart choices to keep the noble families in check. It would also be pretty realistic as they did this in real life. The senate made the mistake of giving Julius Caesar too much power and for that the republic was transformed into an Empire.

[UghUghUgh]

So if there is a senate what function does it have? Can it vote on anything or does it just show you which family is happy and which isn't? Obviously I want a complex system, which won't be ingame, but this forum is the place to speculate on your dreams.

[Shocked]

So if there is a senate what function does it have? Can it vote on anything or does it just show you which family is happy and which isn't? Obviously I want a complex system, which won't be ingame, but this forum is the place to speculate on your dreams.

Not to sure on the senate side of things. I believe an Empire would work best for this game, as you're the person calling the shots technically you're the emperor. As emperor you should be able to influence the senate into making certain decisions.

Though the senate will come to you with proposals, if you ignore all proposals made then the senate will become angry and plot to create rebellion or unrest in Rome.

[Lord Dakier]

You can't have one faction with several families it just won't work for favouritism reasons. I say give a campaign with an expanded family system and political system with split families seperate from grand campagin. Use the avatar system for your own family or take on the roll of a historical family.

[Shocked]

You can't have one faction with several families it just won't work for favouritism reasons. I say give a campaign with an expanded family system and political system with split families seperate from grand campagin. Use the avatar system for your own family or take on the roll of a historical family.

That's how Rome in real life worked. You'll have a ruling family if you're an Empire, but if you're a republic there will be several families that must be balanced in power.

[Lord Dakier]

Yes and other families had control of other legions. If you only place in command men of your family then what. It only works with different families controlling different regions like it happened.

Make a seperate campaign, your family leader is a member of the council or has a speaker on his behalf then the senate have to vote on missions as such. It's RPG value would be fantastic. Later on perhaps you can do a Julius Caesar and conquer Rome.

[Shocked]

Yes and other families had control of other legions. If you only place in command men of your family then what. It only works with different families controlling different regions like it happened.

Make a seperate campaign, your family leader is a member of the council or has a speaker on his behalf then the senate have to vote on missions as such. It's RPG value would be fantastic. Later on perhaps you can do a Julius Caesar and conquer Rome.

As ze player you control everything anyway, but I can see where you're coming from. Though the senate sanctioned the actions and powers of families, they couldn't just act of their own accord and do whatever they wanted.

[UghUghUgh]

I'm with Shocked. The player will always be in control. With several families he has a bigger pool to choose from, when granting the title of governor or general or maybe there will be something like the ministers in Empire. That is one possible advantage of playing a republic instead of an empire.

And from the interviews I read there really will be two different playstyles available. Rome either as a republic or as an empire. This is the feature I am most excited about, because I wonder what kind of internal politics will be in and to what extent the player will be limited in a republic (if there are any limitations at all).

[Shocked]

I'm with Shocked. The player will always be in control. With several families he has a bigger pool to choose from, when granting the title of governor or general or maybe there will be something like the ministers in Empire. That is one possible advantage of playing a republic instead of an empire.

And from the interviews I read there really will be two different playstyles available. Rome either as a republic or as an empire. This is the feature I am most excited about, because I wonder what kind of internal politics will be in and to what extent the player will be limited in a republic (if there are any limitations at all).

Yup! and that does sound cool. I'm off to bed gents, goodnight!

[Lord Dakier]

Precisely why you should either be a none restricted Rome or a restricted family of rome in a seperate campaign.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

So it would prevent you from sending an overly good general to campaign all the time as he might and his family might try to take over the government? When you declare empire you should let these generals choose to side with you or not. In the empire it should have a similar system in which a great general can overthrow you unless your faction leader is stronger.

[Keyser]

Really the best way would be having the republican part of the campaign as a normal campaign (excepted maybe for multiplayer where you could have two player playing differents characters but fighting for the roman factions), albeit with more rpg elements, elections and such, maybe personnal wealth being influenced by the positions held by your family members (i would prefer political factions actually, or best, both...) and also, like in paradox' Rome personnal distrusts and ambitions, friends and foe among the others roman characters. And when your (or another) family/political faction gain enough power/wealth/prestige, you have the choice to defy the senate and the republicans or support them against a wanabee dictator. With the roman troops, provinces and characers siding with each side (according maybe to something like popularity in each province where the actions of your characters as a magistrate could influence it or with each roman character, would play).

The ideal best would be the possibility to have successive such wars (if other roman characters than yours get enough prestige they could try their own coup, until the player tries itself) like in real life. (With Marisu/Sylla, Caesar/Crassus/Pompey, Octavian-Marc Anthony vs Brutus and all and finnally the showdown between Octavian and Marc Anthony.)

That wouldn't be that far fetched as it works pretty much as a mix between RTW 3 roman family, Shogun 2 realm divide mechanics and Empire government system (with social class and all for influencing who would support you)...

[Shocked]

So it would prevent you from sending an overly good general to campaign all the time as he might and his family might try to take over the government? When you declare empire you should let these generals choose to side with you or not. In the empire it should have a similar system in which a great general can overthrow you unless your faction leader is stronger.

Nope, the system only affects the recruitment of Generals, not how you use them. E.g you've recruited 5 Scipii Generals to lead armies but only one Julii, then tensions will rise.

[zg0301zg]

I think it wouldnt be bad idea that you could choose to play with certain family ( Caesar, Scipio etc...) and from then as you rise from the mission you would get from senate you would also have greater powers, by recruiting, more funding, more influence and such to rise to either that your family becomes dictator or to influence the senate...

I will try to explain more, on each major action such as do you invade Carthage or Gauls you would have to get approval by Seanate and conditions in which time period and such, therefore the game would be more challenging right ?