Roman Economic Concern

[King Agamemnon of Mycenae]

Hi,
I posted in the questions, suggestions and discussion thread a couple days ago about a problem/discrepancy and there seems to be more to my problem than a simple scripted thing I didn't know about. I don't think it is a technical error (or atleast I hope not) but probably something I missed when looking for an explanation.

Here are all of the previous posts made on this (read the first one as it explains in more detail my predicament):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just a quick question, I am currently at 582 a.u.c. and only making around 60 to 70k per turn. This is really odd to me because only about 2-4 years ago I was making 120-130k per turn. I did recruit two legions worth of cohorts, but their combined upkeep isn't 60-70k per turn, and I have been nonstop building economic buildings. I currently have 50 settlements (could this be the start of some scripted thing?) and have two protectorates: Macedon and the Gallacei (sp?)

The strangest thing is that the financial report and end turn report both say I should be getting ~110-120k, a more reasonable estimate for my income.
I have a ton of savegames going a ways back if anyone wants them to look at, but it sounds like a script to me.

If someone would be so kind as to tell me if there is a script that kicks in around this time/settlement count or if this is not the case helping me trouble shoot a bit that would be great.
Thanks in advance,
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How much oney do you have? If you have over 200,000 everything becomes more expensive;
Also what might be the case if your leader just died and got replaced is that the new leader causes worse economy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thanks for the fast response. No I haven't gone over 200k as I make sure to spend my money on buildings each turn. This started happening before my faction leader died (he just died a turn after I posted).
I can play a couple more turns and see what happens, but there isn't a script thing that pops up around 50 settlements/580 auc?

THanks in advance,
King Agamemnon of Mycenae :thimbsup2

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Open the console to check the script. If it says add_money [your faction] then the script is taking away your excess money. The game keeps me floating just under 200k at the start of every turn.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I am playing as Rome, so my faction is romans_julii right? but the answer is no, the only people it is taking money from is THrace (and then giving it back ).
In the financial scroll thing it says my income is about 240,000, and expenditure is like 130,000 which should be netting me ~110,000. I will note that I am getting like 60,000 of my income from my protectorates (at this point the gallacei, Carthage and Macedon) However I lost Carthage during this period and that is the main reason that what I should be making goes down from 120-130k to 110k, but that does not explain why I am only ACTUALLY getting ~60-70k.

Maybe if a dev or someone with a knowledge of the scripts/bugs sees this they could give me a hand
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*Made By Ur-Lord Tedric*
Can you post a couple of representative piccies of your Finance Scroll, because I'm not quite getting it.

There is an 'inflation factor' that starts to operate (as it should) when you start to have too much money, that will work long before any is actually taken away when you simply have too much, but what you're describing doesn't seem to be like that......

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here are two pics of what is happening, the first one is the start of the turn, you can see I have ~80k and in the next one you can see the projected income was ~150k
I ended the turn (this is just a test run btw so I autoresolved everything and I just queue very expensive buildings) and the next turn I ended up with ~80k again and after building the next turns projection was ~160k.

and I checked and saw that the script was adding/subtracting money from other factions but not Rome.
THis seems quite weird to me, if you can help I would be greatly appreciative
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

edit2:I forgot to mention, but I loaded a save from 580 auc and didn't recruit that legion, so my expenditures are down from previous posts.

Edit: I think I am going to start a thread for my problem as I don't want to keep taking up space in this thread, but please, if anyone can help me that would be greatly appreciated!!
Oh and I think I'll upload some save games if anyone wants to take a look.

If there is anything else I can provide please let me know,
Thanks in Advance,
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

Here are some screens along with all my savegames dating back a while. s580 is the best one to look at before the problem really started in 581ish:

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Put it in the other thread, but better here....

A couple of nice simple small jpg images to look at would be great - no downloading needed - no file formats I can't use......

[King Agamemnon of Mycenae]

This probably sounds like a noobish question, but how do I convert the file type rtw uses to take screens (tga) to jpg or other more common formats?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

This probably sounds like a noobish question, but how do I convert the file type rtw uses to take screens (tga) to jpg or other more common formats?

I'm sure that there are programs that will do it - but I always prefer the nice simple and free approach that everyone can use (which is why no .7z files)

- Arrange your view
- Press Alt + Print Screen
- Exit
- Open Paint
- Ctrl + V
- Edit picture
- Save as JPEG
- attach to message & upload

All free and easy with Windows - as with .zip files.....

[King Agamemnon of Mycenae]

Alright, here should be four screens of my financial scroll, two with the info at the beginning of each turn and two with it after I spent the money. The years covered are w581 and s582.

edit: looks like when I tried to make them smaller it didn't work, oops

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Right...

I'd rather like to understand the situation in detail, so there'll be a few questions after...

But, in simple terms, yes, I think 2 lots of 40k have been taken off you because your Treasury was predicted to be rather over 200k - you simply have too much money. You should also find that many building costs are more than their base (depending on trait/retinue effects too), due to inflation.

Having done this a few times in the last few months, however, I'd really like to know - especially as I've never had an army upkeep cost below my taxes!

- 0turn or 1turn?
- Difficulty level?
- Which factions are giving you all that tribute? They are all protectorates? Are you using Forced Diplomacy?
- Being rather colour challenged myself, I can't be sure, but have you really taken: Africa; Southern Spain; and a good chunk of Gaul within less than 50yrs? If so, then I'd love to know how?

PS - are you using any mods, or removed things like the Garrison Script?

[King Agamemnon of Mycenae]

Okay, I am playing 0turn on H/vh and Macedon, the Gallacei and Carthage are my protectorates (I believe this should be the larger value under the diplomacy tribute area because don't protectorates give you like half their income or something along those lines?) The only faction that is paying me a "tribute" that I used force diplomacy on is Carthage because I want them to stay in Numidia and not get too powerful, however they attacked me the beginning of 582 i believe, so they shouldn't register as a protectorate anymore.

Yes I have taken all of those territories and it is because I have played rtw since I was like eight (fourteen now), so I have a very good grasp on how to win battles with very few casualties. This means I don't need a very big army (I currently have three legions plus some garrisons for Spain, the unruly people, and that is it), so I can concentrate on my economy very heavily. If you want I can go into specifics but I don't think you'd be that interested as I am sure you are a very good player yourself.

One final thing though, by the end of the turn when I have spent all my money the projected treasury total for the next turn is less than 200,000. I thought that the script didn't kick in unless you surpassed 200k? If this is a bug how should I correct it and if it isn't it must be new because I used to be able to keep my treasury right under 200k for the beginning of each turn and not have a problem with versions past.

Thanks for your help,
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

edit: I don't use any submods and the garrison script is still there but I seems like it doesn't always work.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Well - proof final that 0turn is on easy mode!

Well - that's really interesting. VH battles and you find it that easy - there must be something said for youth and all that RTS experience. I thought I was 'fairly experienced' (playing RTW since it first appeared), but I'm starting to question that now.

I must admit, not that I've done it for some considerable time, but I didn't recall that Protectorates gave you anything - but I've had so few I may not recall correctly.

As far as I remember I think the 'remove money' script acts as soon as you're predicted to have 'too much money' - as indeed you obviously have. Even given the '1 full stack = a 2+2 consular army' ratio (which I've always believed), then you have achieved with 3 stacks what the Romans needed at least 6 to, so perhaps I'll see if the Team want to make it much harder for people like you.

Me, whilst it's 1 turn and obviously a much greater challenge (but only M/M) I've also just got to 50 settlemets/regions, but it's taken 90yrs and now up to 8 legions/stacks - each with some spares (so 12 equivalents). But then I'm playing with little risk - because that's how empires are kept.

[King Agamemnon of Mycenae]

Just curious, but you don't happen to know the actual triggers for the remove money script, because I don't like playing with the uncertainty of when my money is going to magically vanish. For me atleast the greatest joy of this mod is micromanaging each settlement and it is really frustrating when I have put SO much of my resources into have a great economy to have it be taken away.

Oh and I did make an alteration to the edu: I increased the morale multiplier from 0.92 to 1.1 resulting in longer battles, but still a reasonable kill rate.

If you don't know when this script occurs, maybe if dvk sees this he could enlighten me.
Thanks for the help,
King Agamemnon of Mycenae

P.S. I play StarCraft

edit: I am thinking this campaign might be more trouble than it is worth, and you seem to think 1-turn is a lot more challenging so I think I'll try a 1turn campaign instead.
This is to dvk: If you see this, if you would be so kind as to tell me when the script will start to "remove excess funds," because I would like to plan for this in my next campaign.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

..............

P.S. I play StarCraft

edit: I am thinking this campaign might be more trouble than it is worth, and you seem to think 1-turn is a lot more challenging so I think I'll try a 1turn campaign instead.
..............

If you are still enjoying the campaign, then I think you should continue. If you/we are lucky there is a chance v2.6 will appear by the time you finish (but at your rate perhaps not....). Then, if you do start a 1turn, I will be very interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between the two - for you also have a different play-style.

"Starcraft" -

But you haven't lived unless you fell in love with Elite wireframes with the Cobra Mk III on the BBC Micro.