Incorrect weapons in RTW 2 as seen in PC gamer uk

[UROSIUS]

OK so i was just reading the 242 edition of pc gamer uk, and theres a little diagram showing the weapons/shields used by the roman soldiers which states that the hastati use a sear (hasta), principes fight with a pilum, and only the triarii have a gladius. THIS IS INCORRECT, at least for this period. In the time of the punic wars romans were using a manipular legion and ALL soldiers had a gladius (except for skirmishers)! The hasta was used by the hastati in the earlier period, not this one, whats next: roman phalangites?! And as for the pilum it was very rarely used in melee, its primary use was to be thrown at the enemy before you take out your sword! And i see pictures from in game next to the text of troops preparing for melee with pilla! If this ends up in the game in a year or so it will be extremely historically inaccurate and will BREAK the experience of the game. Unless we are starting in the fifth century they will need to look at their sources some more.

[Senchiro]

I'm get bored of all those historical accufan's... Guys if you're so frustrated, build your own studio and made a game accurate as you wish to be.

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

[King Gambrinus]

I'm get bored of all those historical accufan's... Guys if you're so frustrated, build your own studio and made a game accurate as you wish to be.

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

Wise this one is.

[Destraex]

I'm get bored of all those historical accufan's... Guys if you're so frustrated, build your own studio and made a game accurate as you wish to be.

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

They have only had 10yrs to get it right. C'mon, I think they should get it right? You on the other hand may want to go check out the bottom of the pile.
Starcraft2... its a game about Romans... yes believe me. You will love it! Just pretend those space ships are really roman soldiers. No need to be accurate.

[Adufka]

They have only had 10yrs to get it right. C'mon, I think they should get it right? You on the other hand may want to go check out the bottom of the pile.
Starcraft2... its a game about Romans... yes believe me. You will love it! Just pretend those space ships are really roman soldiers. No need to be accurate.

lol

Naturally it isn't a historical simulator where it needs to be boring and slow and extremely accurate to the detriment of gameplay but it should have some degree of accuracy. Otherwise why call it "Rome" if you aren't going to base it on that time period to some degree. Why not have the Romans dress up in Spartan kit from 300, arm em with Medieval longswords, and have them all have Chinese names? Because none of that would make sense. Soldiers from that period were armed and deployed a certain way, if the game doesn't represent that then why even put them in. Might as well just have "generic infantry unit" armed with whatever weapons you feel like giving it.

Agreed

[warrior6]

They have only had 10yrs to get it right. C'mon, I think they should get it right? You on the other hand may want to go check out the bottom of the pile.
Starcraft2... its a game about Romans... yes believe me. You will love it! Just pretend those space ships are really roman soldiers. No need to be accurate.

not sure what you mean by starcraft 2 as bottom of the pile. starcraft has always been a great game and its extremely competitive.

[Gotterdammerung]

I'm get bored of all those historical accufan's... Guys if you're so frustrated, build your own studio and made a game accurate as you wish to be.

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

Naturally it isn't a historical simulator where it needs to be boring and slow and extremely accurate to the detriment of gameplay but it should have some degree of accuracy. Otherwise why call it "Rome" if you aren't going to base it on that time period to some degree. Why not have the Romans dress up in Spartan kit from 300, arm em with Medieval longswords, and have them all have Chinese names? Because none of that would make sense. Soldiers from that period were armed and deployed a certain way, if the game doesn't represent that then why even put them in. Might as well just have "generic infantry unit" armed with whatever weapons you feel like giving it.

[Brutalsubtlety]

I'm get bored of all those historical accufan's... Guys if you're so frustrated, build your own studio and made a game accurate as you wish to be.

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

Often said, never heard.

[Rhaegar1]

OK so i was just reading the 242 edition of pc gamer uk, and theres a little diagram showing the weapons/shields used by the roman soldiers which states that the hastati use a sear (hasta), principes fight with a pilum, and only the triarii have a gladius. THIS IS INCORRECT, at least for this period. In the time of the punic wars romans were using a manipular legion and ALL soldiers had a gladius (except for skirmishers)! The hasta was used by the hastati in the earlier period, not this one, whats next: roman phalangites?! And as for the pilum it was very rarely used in melee, its primary use was to be thrown at the enemy before you take out your sword! And i see pictures from in game next to the text of troops preparing for melee with pilla! If this ends up in the game in a year or so it will be extremely historically inaccurate and will BREAK the experience of the game. Unless we are starting in the fifth century they will need to look at their sources some more.

I thought the gladius was a sword originally used by hannibal and forged from superiour iron from hispania, but I could be wrong. Anyway I'm pretty sure that only at the third punic war Rome had the availability of iberian steel for their gladiuses. For common soldiers. But I'm no historian so I could be wrong.

[athanaric]

OK so i was just reading the 242 edition of pc gamer uk, and theres a little diagram showing the weapons/shields used by the roman soldiers which states that the hastati use a sear (hasta), principes fight with a pilum, and only the triarii have a gladius. THIS IS INCORRECT, at least for this period. In the time of the punic wars romans were using a manipular legion and ALL soldiers had a gladius (except for skirmishers)! The hasta was used by the hastati in the earlier period, not this one, whats next: roman phalangites?! And as for the pilum it was very rarely used in melee, its primary use was to be thrown at the enemy before you take out your sword! And i see pictures from in game next to the text of troops preparing for melee with pilla! If this ends up in the game in a year or so it will be extremely historically inaccurate and will BREAK the experience of the game. Unless we are starting in the fifth century they will need to look at their sources some more.

It's likely that the information that can be extrapolated from that article is incomplete. No sane person would have any Roman unit use the pilum as a primary close combat weapon. Maybe you could copy the paragraph in question, so that we can read ourselves?

Wise this one is.

Your educated opinion and infinite knowledge is always enlightening.

[King Gambrinus]

Your educated opinion and infinite knowledge is always enlightening.

Thanks!



Anyway, this is why we need a historical discussion thread. So that the history fanatics can moan elsewhere. I mean seriously, inaccurate weapons? They're trying to sell video games, not do a bloody dissertation on Roman military arms. Besides, EB2 is coming out soon if you want historical accuracy. I know I'll be downloading!


And remember, kids, imagination is the best graphics you can have!

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Show me the picture or it did not happen

[Tim_Ward]

OK so i was just reading the 242 edition of pc gamer uk, and theres a little diagram showing the weapons/shields used by the roman soldiers which states that the hastati use a sear (hasta), principes fight with a pilum, and only the triarii have a gladius. THIS IS INCORRECT, at least for this period. In the time of the punic wars romans were using a manipular legion and ALL soldiers had a gladius (except for skirmishers)! The hasta was used by the hastati in the earlier period, not this one, whats next: roman phalangites?! And as for the pilum it was very rarely used in melee, its primary use was to be thrown at the enemy before you take out your sword! And i see pictures from in game next to the text of troops preparing for melee with pilla! If this ends up in the game in a year or so it will be extremely historically inaccurate and will BREAK the experience of the game. Unless we are starting in the fifth century they will need to look at their sources some more.

Yeah, that little diagram is just something PC Gamer put together. If there are historical inaccuracies in it, take it up with them. It's nothing to do with CA.

[Asgaroth]

Rome II it's first a game and not an historical documentary...

I agree.

And second, there are mods that can correct that for those people that aim for historical acurracy.

[UghUghUgh]

This thread is pointless without any evidence to look at. But here is one question I have for all those guys, who don't care about historical accuracy (which can't be that accurate, because much knowledge is lost and CA has to make stuff up and are welcome to do so, but anyway...):

How far could CA take the inaccuracies without bothering you? No one wants to see celtic women riding fire breathing dragons, but which nonsense is acceptable? Burning pigs, screaming women, ballistas mounted on elephants, unstoppable heroes on the battlefield, boar riding barbarians saying ughughugh when you click on them? What exactly?

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Yeah, well, legionaries fighting with pilum in close combat kinda defeat the entire idea of the Roman legionary - a trained swordsman. That's what makes the Romans unique - the use of swords as the main close combat weapon.

[UROSIUS]

Yeah, well, legionaries fighting with pilum in close combat kinda defeat the entire idea of the Roman legionary - a trained swordsman. That's what makes the Romans unique - the use of swords as the main close combat weapon.

Exactly.

Now im not expecting complete historical accuracy, it is a game, but would you play a game where a spartan soldier fights with a two handed axe?

And why do people always say "wait for mods", i want to play a vanilla game about rome and the ancient world, not the world of make believe.

As for the people wanting pictures, thats against copyright, you will have to go out and buy PC gamer UK issue 242.

A bit of on artistic touch is always nice, but weapons are probably the most important part of the game, im not saying i want accurate pants for the barbarian nobles im saying i dont want romans fighting with pilla in melee, just like i dont want Pictish Cataphracts.

As for the question about the gladius, it was adopted in the 3rd century, even before the war with hannibal the romans had vivid contact with the celtic tribes around the ebro river, from which they probably adapted the sword. Before they might have used the greek kopis, but either way unless we start in the 4th century gladii should be there.

Like Tim said, maybe its an error on PCgamer's behalf

Just because its a game doesnt mean it should be historically inaccurate. Shogun 2 didnt have shields right? thats all im asking for.

[johnny_b_good]

Bah I just one ''new'' engine powered Rome thats all.

[Jack Lusted]

Roman soldiers will not fight with pilum in melee. They will throw them before the charge. If you are talking about the picture I think you are, with an officer charging up the beach with two soldiers behind, the two soldiers behind are getting ready to throw them not fight with them.

[Senchiro]

Roman soldiers will not fight with pilum in melee. They will throw them before the charge. If you are talking about the picture I think you are, with an officer charging up the beach with two soldiers behind, the two soldiers behind are getting ready to throw them not fight with them.

That's why i think CA is right to not show any video right now as the game is on pre-alpha.

And this just simply because some people brain gonna still not realize that it's only a pre-alpha and gonna take this one as a the main final game. So we gonna see rising some huge amount of spam thread to criticize every little aspect of this video.

Well done CA.