RTW2 Mod Support

[Sipreconus]

Mod Support will decide the fate and longevity of this game.

[AngryTitusPullo]

A moderator shall decide whether this merits a new thread.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Mod Support will decide the fate and longevity of this game.

I love modding as much as the next zebra, but gods guys, we heard you the last 90 times.

[Rewjeo]

I think CA has heard this loud and clear by now. They have also tried explaining their side of it many times by now.

[wolfbane751]

dont expect rome 2 to be fully moddable and ready for total conversions on day 1 or even get your hopes up for that

[Armatus]

New Game > Expansion > Mod Tools

Translates to,

IP Protection > Increased Marketability > Extended Playability

New Game > Expansion...

you get the idea.

[Raimeken]

They keep on saying, "well we don't really have tools, so we can't spend the time making you guys brand new ones", but all that they should do is make tools for themselves and then release it for us, like say...the Creation Kit...or CryEngine SDK....

[Dewy]

They keep on saying, "well we don't really have tools, so we can't spend the time making you guys brand new ones", but all that they should do is make tools for themselves and then release it for us, like say...the Creation Kit...or CryEngine SDK....

I know it's just that simple, right? You'll be surprised at the things game developers do with no tools, or with tools that will enrage all mod developers. Mod tools need to be at a much higher standard than tools game developers make do with for any mods to be created. And no it's not as simple as just making tools, I've written multiple specifications (not code) to make a game mod enabled. Not only would those scrapped specifications have taken more time to code but also more time for content to be created by the rest of the business. Modders would been able to make content quite fast, but it would have slowed down the actual creation of the game.

[Raimeken]

I know it's just that simple, right? You'll be surprised at the things game developers do with no tools, or with tools that will enrage all mod developers. Mod tools need to be at a much higher standard than tools game developers make do with for any mods to be created. And no it's not as simple as just making tools, I've written multiple specifications (not code) to make a game mod enabled. Not only would those scrapped specifications have taken more time to code but also more time for content to be created by the rest of the business. Modders would been able to make content quite fast, but it would have slowed down the actual creation of the game.

Frankly, I think they should do that and slow down the creation of the game. IMHO yearly Total War is taking away from the series, they need to rethink the strategy. I know creating mod tools is not going to be easy, and its going to long and laborious. But I think its worth it. When was RTW released? 2004? I still play it. Its been 8 years and I still play it, I still play M2TW even though its 6 years old and horribly outdated and buggy, why? The mods keep me coming back, I even bought the games TWICE, since I lost my old copies. These are the only two games I've ever bought twice, I mean CA, look at that, I bought your two best games twice, so shouldn't you think, hm didn't our strategy before work? If our game isn't as easy to mod as before, than shouldn't we make it as easy to mod as it was? (minus the text files)

[Stallownage]

Frankly, I think they should do that and slow down the creation of the game. IMHO yearly Total War is taking away from the series, they need to rethink the strategy. I know creating mod tools is not going to be easy, and its going to long and laborious. But I think its worth it. When was RTW released? 2004? I still play it. Its been 8 years and I still play it, I still play M2TW even though its 6 years old and horribly outdated and buggy, why? The mods keep me coming back, I even bought the games TWICE, since I lost my old copies. These are the only two games I've ever bought twice, I mean CA, look at that, I bought your two best games twice, so shouldn't you think, hm didn't our strategy before work? If our game isn't as easy to mod as before, than shouldn't we make it as easy to mod as it was? (minus the text files)

You... you do get that video games cost money to make right? And you also understand that the longer the development time, the more it costs them to make?

They cant just decide on a whim to go behind schedule and drive up costs just so a minority of fans can have something that is frankly a dying trend. There are not enough amateur hobbyists any more who can create content on par with the pros. Five or ten years ago, yes. Tech has advanced, standards have gone up and video games require more specialist knowledge than ever before to develop.

Its time for the modders to accept that the days of total conversions and expansive modding are coming to an end, and to move to the new area of independent development if they want to continue making things.

[Durnaug]

Mod Support will decide the fate and longevity of this game.

QFT

The business model CA seem to be adopting is DLC whilst simultaneously crippling the modding aspects. A deliberate business choice typical of a corporation. And the games are like hollywood movies - progressively dumber, prettier and all for the sheople.

[Senchiro]

Mod Support will decide the your fate and not longevity of this game.

[Stallownage]

Modder entitlement is unreal. Can someone offer me a reason for why exactly CA is obligated to release their tools and assets, developed at their expense, to you for free?

If you want to play part time game developer, download cryengine or UDK, theyre free. People won't do that though, because they need all the work done by CA. People act like mods are somehow this unique creation beyond the reach CA, when the reality is all the mods do is tweak certain things with the bulk of the work still being CA's. Mods that attempt to do more than that are either never finished, or are not of professional quality.

Bottom line, CA sell you a license to play their game, you judge yourself if the quality merits your money. If they dont feel its in their interest to support modding, thats perfectly within their rights. I for one will still buy Rome 2 because mods or not I know it will be good. If the modders feel they can do better, why not grab a copy of CE3 and hop to it, instead of crying because you cant hijack all CA's hard work.

[Durnaug]

all the mods do is tweak certain things with the bulk of the work still being CA's. Mods that attempt to do more than that are either never finished, or are not of professional quality

Go play some of the RTW mods before you make such statements. CA are gobsmacked by these completed works.

CA can do whatever the heck they like and we can wish for whatever the heck we like. I have no problem with that. But the ability to mod the game will extend the lifetime of the game - RTW is still going strong and still selling long past its play-buy date

The OP is correct.

[Stallownage]

Go play some of the RTW mods before you make such statements. CA are gobsmacked by these completed works.

CA can do whatever the heck they like and we can wish for whatever the heck we like. I have no problem with that. But the ability to mod the game will extend the lifetime of the game - RTW is still going strong and still selling long past its play-buy date

The OP is correct.

Surely then, if said modders are so good, they can use one of the various engine development kits freely available to recreate their own version of TW? Or do they, as I somewhat suspect, rely very heavily on existing CA work to be able to create their projects?

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Surely then, if said modders are so good, they can use one of the various engine development kits freely available to recreate their own version of TW? Or do they, as I somewhat suspect, rely very heavily on existing CA work to be able to create their projects?

Well, uh, yeah. That's why it's called modding. If they wanted to make their own game, they would do so.

This is a hobby. They like making modifications to their game, for other people.

And yes, they're very good at what they do. Have you seen TATW? Thera? Warhammer?

RSII, EB, SS, Darthmod, Radious Mods, Sekigahara, Broken Crescent, TGW, The Blue and the Grey? And many, many more.

Oh, there's also the Retrofit mod, which was created by CA. Does that count, though? Or are they just piggy-backing on their own work?

Modders create modifications for the base game, to enhance gameplay, if you so wish. They're not stealing CA's credit. They all know that they can't mod a game if it isn't created. They're not forcing mods on you, they're not charging you for mods. They're doing this in their free time, and then graciously share it with us, for free. If you don't like it, you can totally ignore it and never touch it ever.

Us who do like it, however, are going to keep asking for mod tools. Because we love mods. We love Total War, too, otherwise we wouldn't be playing mods for it. But sometimes, CA does something that we don't like (Or they just totally drop the ball, like with Empire) and that requires the ability to mod, so we can fix that, and everyone is happy.

[dheta]

Go play some of the RTW mods before you make such statements. CA are gobsmacked by these completed works.

CA can do whatever the heck they like and we can wish for whatever the heck we like. I have no problem with that. But the ability to mod the game will extend the lifetime of the game - RTW is still going strong and still selling long past its play-buy date

The OP is correct.

Wrong while the mods take the game further but in general RTW is popoular not beacuse of mods but beacuse of the game they arent playing the game if theyr playing a mod you only have to buy the game once so how does mods extend it's lifetime when theyr playing something other people made?

Too be honest the only reason CA should make modding tools is so those people whos only excited about rome II is beacuse of the abillity to mod buys it. Though its probaly still gonna cost them more money in the end.

All in all modding wont help this game since it will mostly only be used to remake the game to something CA dident make which isent something that helps them at all.

And no they dont gobsmack CA's work had CA had two more years who knows what they could have turned out its all about time needed people use 3 years on a mod that builts on a game that took what 2 years to make? so off course they're better than the original product since they have more time at their disposal and more modern technology and a great game to built on.

[Sipreconus]

I'm not trying to start fights with this guys, we are all on the same side, we all want the same thing. I personally believe they should hand the reigns over to the RS2 team for this game.

I have bought every DLC pack for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun2 to support CA and I suggest you do the same. However I never play these games, they have no replay value unlike Stainless Steel M2TW and Roma Surrectum2 have for their respected titles. The tools aren't there for the modding community as someone stated above.

I don't know what the answer is, but an alternative is needed to give them the revenue they are needing.

*If they made the game $80 and gave the tools to the community would it be worth it?
* What if they could sell a 45 second advertisement at game load up?

[Stallownage]

I'm not trying to start fights with this guys, we are all on the same side, we all want the same thing. I personally believe they should hand the reigns over to the RS2 team for this game.

I have bought every DLC pack for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun2 to support CA and I suggest you do the same. However I never play these games, they have no replay value unlike Stainless Steel M2TW and Roma Surrectum2 have for their respected titles. The tools aren't there for the modding community as someone stated above.

I don't know what the answer is, but an alternative is needed to give them the revenue they are needing.

*If they made the game $80 and gave the tools to the community would it be worth it?
* What if they could sell a 45 second advertisement at game load up?

Because I wouldnt buy the game in that instance, and neither would the majority of their potential customers. Problem with people like you (the modding obsessed) is that you convince yourselves that mods are the be all and end all, and that everyone loves mods as much as you do, and keep voicing opinions about the necessity of moddability as if you speak for every customer, when the reality is you speak for a very small percentage.

[dheta]

I'm not trying to start fights with this guys, we are all on the same side, we all want the same thing. I personally believe they should hand the reigns over to the RS2 team for this game.

I have bought every DLC pack for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun2 to support CA and I suggest you do the same. However I never play these games, they have no replay value unlike Stainless Steel M2TW and Roma Surrectum2 have for their respected titles. The tools aren't there for the modding community as someone stated above.

I don't know what the answer is, but an alternative is needed to give them the revenue they are needing.

*If they made the game $80 and gave the tools to the community would it be worth it?
* What if they could sell a 45 second advertisement at game load up?

So really you have no confidence that CA will provide a good game and you'll rather have someone who took 4 years to modify an allready existing game? sorry but in that case we really arent on thee same side since that would leave the game in ruins theres a big difference between making a game and modifying it. no ffence too the guys behind RS they did a great job but they cant make a game too CA's standards

But i do agree that the recent games have lacked replay value (only NTW and S2TW) but thats more the era than the company to be honest since they dident really leave alot of space for replayment in those era's of course they could have focused more on replay value and sacrifice historical accuract but that would have angered some other people. yes its true that some mods (like SS and RTR)have done a fantastic job but in the end you have to give credit to CA for making it possible by making such a good game with insane replay value. this from what i see isent the case anymore around here. and that leads back too the point that mods dosent help CA in any form what so ever.

and no increasing the cost on the game wont help anything since most people dont give a damn about mods really its a minority of the people who plays these games now a days. whats needed is that the people who want to make these mods should also pay to do so since theyr pretty much taking CA's game and all theyr hard work to make some modifications so its fits a smaller group of people instead of the masses (EB).

though i still think that modding shouldent be there at all. be happy that such great games are even made and that you get to play them and dont whine about what you yourself think can be better.