Why do half of my governors have 0 loyalty?

**moredrowsy** · July 14, 2012, 12:18 AM

Can someone explain what's the mechanism behind governor (family member) loyalty? I only use family members as governors but right now half of them have 0 loyalty and I'm running out of family members for gov. I don't want my generals to be governors. I read that for generals if you leave them out of the field too long they lose loyalty but regain if you put them in settlements. How come some of my govs who never left a settlement have reduced to 0 loyalty?

**Nerouin** · July 14, 2012, 02:48 AM

Because they touch themselves at night.

**ur-Lord Tedric** · July 14, 2012, 08:30 AM

Because they're greedy sods and it's a perfect reflection of RL.

More seriously, you will be unlucky if it is truly half, but certainly now and again you will want to replace bad governors.

It is also often a good idea to switch people between careers (Generals, Governors or Reconnaissance Fodder), depending on how they develop.

**Tar-Elendil** · July 14, 2012, 12:43 PM

There are also hidden loyalty values attached to some traits which could cause your governors in settlements to lose the trait's imperium. For example, I know that "rhetoic skill" or "inspiring speaker" traits have attached a negative loyalty as well as others such as the usual bad ones like "lewd" and "strong language".

Here's a link that might be helpful:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...loyalty&page=2

**moredrowsy** · July 14, 2012, 05:59 PM

Ewwww, wthell. Is there a way to edit something to display the hidden traits or do I have to wait for version 2.6? Or better, can someone knowledgeable give a list of bad traits tied to imperium?

**Tar-Elendil** · July 15, 2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by moredrowsy

Ewwww, wthell. Is there a way to edit something to display the hidden traits or do I have to wait for version 2.6? Or better, can someone knowledgeable give a list of bad traits tied to imperium?

Perhaps a 2.6 beta tester would know best since they have 'hidden' traits unhidden. But what limited knowledge I do have, I know for certain that the traits "Personality_Loyal", "Prim", "Austere", "Generous", "Good Farmer", and maybe "Public Faith," all have positive Loyalty bonuses attached! So look through your generals and and see who has any of these and those that do not simply open up the exportcharactertraits.txt file in the data folder to learn the triggers to get some of your governors to acquire them. As for those with negative loyalty I already mentioned some in my previous post, but I know the "Victor/Conquerer" traits tend to lower the loyalty rings by one.

Honestly though, what I have noticed that contributes most to loyalty is also what contributes to the difference between a good governor and a bad one--the "Loving Father" or "Respects Father" trait. If a governor has a "disdains his father" it increases the likelyhood of getting those icky bad governor traits which in turn decrease his loyalty through acquiring those bad traits.

Goodluck!

**ur-Lord Tedric** · July 16, 2012, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tar-Elendil

Perhaps a 2.6 beta tester would know best since they have 'hidden' traits unhidden. ...........

Yes, we have the (well most of) the 'hidden' traits unhidden to help try and spot problems for testing. However, there are very few, if any actually (with the exception of Imperium currently, but that's likely to change) that affect Loyalty that aren't already obvious and visible to the player.

Things like 'Loyal', 'Honest', 'Tribunus Militi', 'Slow' - all show that they increase Loyalty. Others, like gaining the most senior career positions, show decreased Loyalty.

The only one that doesn't show currently, iirc, is 'Imperium'. This starts to kick in and reduce Loyalty when the General has been in command of troops too long. It is being looked at now and will change some. It is likely to now be in Years rather than Turns (2tpy) so that Imperium (the power of command) is given for ~5 years (to cope with the longest sieges) and linked to the time Caesar gained (very unusually) and is about the longest time a Legate was appointed in Imperial times.

It also only applies to Patricians - which would be correct historically. But RSII has all 3 Roman Classes and encourages their use, so I am suggesting that it should apply to all - otherwise all us players will just avoid it!

There will still be bad Governors/Generals, although I remain surprised if it's "half", although it's not impossible (just very unlikely). Work through it and it will most likely get better - and just keep an eye on them.

**General Sultan V** · July 14, 2012, 07:15 PM

every single general of mine has 0 Loyalty, even adopted kids and weds, in all of my campaigns, not a single general has any loyalty, I Think this is supposed to be normal, I got used to it and realized loyalty was basically phased out, loyalty now is in the trait system (I.E the Fiercely loyalt trait, It will make a general much harder to bribe, ETC) I've sent many generals leading armies. out of around 4 months of playing RS Only a single one was bribed (And it was'n a family member. it was a leader-less army) But not sure since you say that some of your generals do actually have loyalty points. mine dont, their loyalty stats are merged into the trait system

**moredrowsy** · July 14, 2012, 07:24 PM

If you're playing 2.0 or 2.1 they don't have loyalty stats. In 2.5, they have loyalty rings. If your general have below 3 rings, there is a high chance they will turn on you (ie if they are in command of a legion, the entire legion turn rebels).This happened to me 2 times when I wasn't look at a family member's loyalty because they initially had 6 rings and full management/influence bar but then lost all rings.