Faction - Labrynna Regime

[Drazule]

That is good to know. Any idea where I'd find such files to change? I could really use Veran in quell those pesky Kokiri.

[D_E]

First, be aware that changing the game's files will prevent your current saved games from loading. So don't do this unless you are ready to start a new campaign.

The critical file is Hyrule/data/export_descr_unit.txt. Search for "Veran" and change "stat_health 1, 6" to "stat_health 6, 6"

If you want to give her a real ranged attack, you could copy the primary weapon from Hylia or the Armogohma (the primary weapon is given by the line starting with "stat_pri ").

[HTD]

First, be aware that changing the game's files will prevent your current saved games from loading. So don't do this unless you are ready to start a new campaign.

Nope, the only file that will invalidate current save files is campaign_script.txt. Modifying the EDU is fine.

[D_E]

Oh, ok. That's good to know.

[Apani]

Cannon fodder keeps winning in melee fights against proper infantry units. Is that on purpose?

[Kahath]

Cannon fodder keeps winning in melee fights against proper infantry units. Is that on purpose?

No this is a problem with the M2TW engine. Because the cannon fodder have so many units they are actually able to defeat most basic infantry, even though they have very poor stats. In other words, you can't give a unit type 150 soldiers, and expect other races with a typical unit size of 75 or 60 to be able to beat them in a straight up fight. This was actually a pretty big problem with the Darknuts if I'm not mistaken, their massive Immortals(which were some of their best infantry) lost to one unit of Ordona farmers.

The reason has to do with Medieval Total War itself. Bigger units have to lose more to have the same effect on morale, and bigger units can surround smaller units with greater ease impacting morale even further. I'll need to get someone who is more familiar with M2TW then me to be sure, but that is the way it seems to me from what I experienced.

[Duke Serkol]

AD&D'er
"The 100 peasants beat at your fighter ineffectually with their sticks and pitchforks until you have slain them all. A heroic effort on your part."

Anti-AD&D'er
"The 100 peasants overbear your fighter with their great numbers and, unable to move under the weight of their hordes, you squirm helplessly as they pry open your field plate and skewer you like a lobster. You die an ignoble death."

[Apani]

I don't get the reference. Is that supposed to be related to Dungeon and Dragons?
Anyway, I even tried lowering their attack and defense stats to 0 but they just keep on bashing poor little human heads to death, so yeah, it's totally fault of the numbers.

[Ulfgard the Unmaker]

Well if that's your problem, it sounds to me like you need to focus on throwing them at either the Kokiri or the Gohma.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

That's it; I'm calling in the cavalry.

[Apani]

Apparently Borderguards fight in melee with their bare fists; generally they're not the only ones with that problem. Tokay Hunters do this as well, despite throwing javelins. Can I ask for Missile units to be given secondary melee weapons?

[emanthetwin]

Those freaking gunner posts nearly ruined my Christmas (okay, maybe exaggerated a bit)...... Does anyone else think they're just a little too unstoppable?

[Sir Aroun]

Those freaking gunner posts nearly ruined my Christmas (okay, maybe exaggerated a bit)...... Does anyone else think they're just a little too unstoppable?

This is why I think that they should be replaced by the Ribault (aka organ gun)

[Apani]

Gunner Pots are like fixed Machine Guns. Taking on them frontally is disastrous, you must strike swiftly with the grace of a cat. That said, I hope they'll get Leonardo da Vinci's toy tanks for Christmas.

[emanthetwin]

Are fixed machine guns supposed to be able to shoot from all sides?

[emanthetwin]

Maybe, depends what you mean by "fixed" But I would give you a long explanation why they should be changed or replaced if I wasn't using a tablet.

[Cameron Shutters]

So after some testing it's incredibly obvious that there is simply no reason whatsoever for the Gunners to have the "fires_by_rank" attribute. They perform horribly as it is, and considering they're a high tier and expensive unit that's quite disappointing. Raising their numbers to 86 and removing this attribute has done a lot to make them useful, though they still pail in comparison to many other factions comparable units. Not to mention that by the time you get them in the campaign you've pretty much won, at least that's how it was when I played.

The main drawback, besides how late game they are, of the Gunners is how many shoots they fire before enemy units close the distance. Sure, their shots are powerful, but there simply aren't enough bullets to do any real damage. Simply raising their numbers doesn't work as they require firing with two ranks (the third, fourth, and so on will never shoot) even with the "fires_by_rank" attribute removed. So the attribute absolutely must go if these are to be useful, let alone powerful. The fact that they require two ranks means they take up a tremendous amount of room on the frontline too, so even if you fill your stack with only Gunners only a few will actually be shooting because there just won't be room for all of them. Removing the attribute increases their firing abilities by decreasing the delay between shots and it just plain looks better as, once the attribute is removed, the first rank shoots and then kneels while reloading to let the second rank fire rather than dancing around and playing musical chairs.

Gunner Posts on the other hand are available from the start and absolutely obliterate everything, but they're a puzzle. Dropping their numbers to 2 instead of 3 means they have roughly a 50/50 chance of winning against two Hylian Infantry units, which are, by contrast, low tier and somewhat cheap units with a combined cost of 600 vs the Gunner Posts cost of 700. Take into account their inability to move I think it's safe to say that isn't a proper nerf. Yet at the same time every battle with Gunner Posts I played as Labrynna, except when few enemies were there, the Gunner Posts killed 200+ enemy soldiers. And I mean 200+ per Gunner Post, and 200 is the minimum. These things just can't decide whether they're UP or OP. The biggest problem with them though is that they're available from the start, unlike the Gunners who take forever to make their appearance.

To fix this I'd say make the Gunner Posts cost 900 and take as long as the Gunners to show up. This will weaken Labrynna quite a bit in the early to mid game though. I'd suggest instead making the Gunners show up a bit earlier so they're more mid game rather than late game (after making the corrections on them I outlined, as they are currently worse than Borderguards who a much cheaper and lower tier), so Labrynna can counteract their terrible start with a strong mid and late game. Plus it'll make Labrynna more fun to play as everything except for their Gunners are pretty meh and are just kinda like a weaker Hyrule without cavalry.

There's also the super weak Veran with no attack or loyalty and the incredibly OP Homeguards, but those are more of bugfixes.

Obviously these aren't very relevant at the moment as there are no plans to balance things out as of yet, but I thought I'd leave the information here for when we get to that part before I forget.

[Saria's Vanguard]

Removing the attribute increases their firing abilities by decreasing the delay between shots and it just plain looks better as, once the attribute is removed, the first rank shoots and then kneels while reloading to let the second rank fire rather than dancing around and playing musical chairs.

Thank you I hate them trying to "play musical chairs" rather than kneel fire also thank you for your hard work on the Labrynnians I like using the gunners but right now they need some help

[Apani]

To deactivate fire by rank you don't have to remove it from EDU. Just putting the unit in skirmish mode will do it.

That said, it's up to Neph to create proper firing animations for Gunners.

[Cameron Shutters]

Thank you I hate them trying to "play musical chairs" rather than kneel fire also thank you for your hard work on the Labrynnians I like using the gunners but right now they need some help

No problem. The Gunners are a really cool unit so I hate to see them made useless.

To deactivate fire by rank you don't have to remove it from EDU. Just putting the unit in skirmish mode will do it.

That said, it's up to Neph to create proper firing animations for Gunners.

They already have proper firing animations, you just have to remove the attribute and they use them. And skirmish mode isn't very good for Gunners as the final shot they fire before the enemy reaches them is lost due to them running away. I've found that final shot is usually what makes the difference between the enemy unit routing and not, and with the Gunners long delay between shots every shot counts. You're losing around 1/4 of their firing power by using skirmish mode. The running away does little to help them live longer too unless you have a way to draw the attention of the pursuing units as Gunners aren't all that fast so they'll just run until they get trapped or run out of energy and then get slaughtered. Not to mention running away disrupts their ranks meaning only a few of them will get to shoot until the player orders them to stand with 2 ranks again, which takes some time for them to get into position and distracts the player from other battlefield duties.

So all in all skirmishing is not a good idea for the Gunners except in special situations.