On diplomacy (specificly teritorial exspantion)

[Aelita]

Although I loved the new diplomacy system introduced in Empire one aspect that always bugged me (and many other TW players) was the territorial expatiation penalty. If it returns as a diplomatic factor it should in my opinion have some changes. some of my ideas are...

-once you take a territory you can't get the penalty for taking it again. this would prevent people from racking up big penalties for going back and fortieth over one territory with another nation

-allied nations should give you less of a penalty if both of you are at war with the nation who you took the territory from

-make nations close to you have a stronger penalty, and those far a away a smaller one

-change the penalization of taking land to a penalty for raw number of Territory owned. other nations would have been more worried about a big nation then a small one half way across the world that happend to be growing. To get the penalty for size you would need to have at least 5 (or some other amount of) territories and the penalty would increase as you added more. smaler nations could possibly hate you more then larger nations

These are just some ideas, anyone else have some?

[Templar Spartan]

This sounds pretty reasonable to me Maybe also depending on the wealth/importance of the region/s taken?

[Aelita]

This sounds pretty reasonable to me Maybe also depending on the wealth/importance of the region/s taken?

Yea, it was odd in empire that taking France= 10 pt, and taking windward islands = 10pt i would be more at a nation for taking France

[Black_Watch42]

i love this idea, there has been no clear logic behind the territorial expansion's heavy penalty. These features would be far more crucial for Rome II's less global communication and diplomatic setting when compared to say empire's.

[Ichon]

The most aggravating was getting the penalty repeatedly for the same province but it was annoying to have someone far side of the map as aggravated about a little province you took as your nearest neighbor.

[The Juggernaut]

I would actually like to see TWO different meters in the diplomacy screen: One the normal relations total, and the other a fear meter. Relations shouldn't decrease if your ally takes 2 provinces, but perhaps your fear should. Negative fear would mean that other nations hold you in contempt, and too high fear might result in coalitions being formed against you (like Napoleon or Caesar in Gaul)

[Aelita]

I would actually like to see TWO different meters in the diplomacy screen: One the normal relations total, and the other a fear meter. Relations shouldn't decrease if your ally takes 2 provinces, but perhaps your fear should. Negative fear would mean that other nations hold you in contempt, and too high fear might result in coalitions being formed against you (like Napoleon or Caesar in Gaul)

^good idea. perhaps nations that fear you would also be more likely to accept lopsided deals

[Kaap]

I personally would not like to see the penalty at all. You see, if you are doing major expanding, it probally means you're very strong. Instead of giving you a penalty so countries would be against you, I think more realistic would be that it works as a bonus.

I mean, say you'd be a puny tiny nation and you are ordered to become vassal. The expansion penalty makes you oppose it. But lets be realistic...that tiny puny country will probally Sh&^its pants that it's targetted by a super power. What would you do against them? You have a chance against it? No...most would gladly accept a peacefull diplomatic result.

[Shea O'Gorath]

I personally would not like to see the penalty at all. You see, if you are doing major expanding, it probally means you're very strong. Instead of giving you a penalty so countries would be against you, I think more realistic would be that it works as a bonus.

I mean, say you'd be a puny tiny nation and you are ordered to become vassal. The expansion penalty makes you oppose it. But lets be realistic...that tiny puny country will probally Sh&^its pants that it's targetted by a super power. What would you do against them? You have a chance against it? No...most would gladly accept a peacefull diplomatic result.

Nobody told that to us Irish. Oh no.

[Anna_Gein]

I personally would not like to see the penalty at all. You see, if you are doing major expanding, it probally means you're very strong. Instead of giving you a penalty so countries would be against you, I think more realistic would be that it works as a bonus.

I mean, say you'd be a puny tiny nation and you are ordered to become vassal. The expansion penalty makes you oppose it. But lets be realistic...that tiny puny country will probally Sh&^its pants that it's targetted by a super power. What would you do against them? You have a chance against it? No...most would gladly accept a peacefull diplomatic result.

No.
The various state would see you as an imperialist nation and would then ally themselves to face you. Also "medium" power would seek alliance with those small country to be able to fight your great country
domination.

But I agree we should really been able to threaten small nation.

Maybe we should get smaller malus if we choose to create vassal state instead of fully annex new territories.

[Michael5188]

I do think there needs to be a penalty. Naturally other nations wouldn't want you to become a super power unchecked.

But I completely agree with the ideas here. I also think whether the nation declared war on you or not should be taken into account as well.

To be honest of all the advancements in this game, the most I'm interested in are with CAI. I think Shogun 2 made some solid steps forward from Empire's random aggressiveness, but there's still some weird quarks.

My biggest hope CAI is for the ai to treat the other ai nations the same way they treat you. The diplomatic/ai immersion is really killed when it's obvious the ai is just picking on you because your the player. That isn't a fun challenge, it's a cheap, obnoxious one. Another hope is the concept of self-preservation, something I feel is sorely lacking thus far. Minor nations are always ridiculously aggressive. They mentioned different nations having different personalities, I'm hoping that plays a large role. Some being stubborn and just suicidally prideful, and some knowing that while they aren't happy with you expanding, it would be wise for them to appeal to you diplomatically, as opposed to throwing a hissy-fit, and dumping their single stack army on your gigantic empire.