[Discussion] Marian Reforms:Implementation, Upgrade or sidegrade?

[windsupernova]

If they are included in the time frame of the game of course.

How would you want\think they should work?

Should it be an overall upgrade for your whole army?

Should each system have advantages and disadvantages but no clear winner?

Should it be something that should come naturally? Or should you research it?

Personally I would like for the Marius reforms to be something you can choose to do or not.(Whether by research, dilemma , the date they happened happens,etc...) I always hated how in Vainilla Rome 1 you always had little time to play around with a full Pre Marian army because once you teched up to Triarri chances are that the Marian reforms will come. I think I played more around with "full" pre marian armies in custom games than in the actual campaign.It would also be nice to have more freedom regarding that.

As far as the Reforms themeselves, I think I would like them to each have their advantages and disavantages to make it less of more of a dilemma instead of something you always want to do. Maybe make the pre marian armies have more upkeep,less replenishment,more morale, but more loyal (even a slower "Romanization for conquered provinces?")? And the post marian armies Less upkeep, more discipline, replenish faster but with the increased risk of Generals revolting? (And increased Romanization? Bonuses don't have to be on the units themeselves.)

What do you guys think? Feel free to agree\disagree\laugh at me for my ineptness. How do you guys think the marian reforms should be done?Personally I never liked how they were done in Rome 1.

Forgive me for the bad english and wall of text.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Not knowing yet how this Legion thing is suppose to be in the game I just want that when and if the reform happened the game just not present me a new set of units and make my existing maniple army obsolete and I have to recruit a whole new legion like in the original Rome. I would prefer my standard existing 4 hastati, 4 principes & 2 triarii be reorganize into 1 first cohort and 9 normal cohort when the reform happened rather than may my original legion simple unrecruitable/retrainable.

My intuition regarding the reform however will be probably by research (or whatever new name Rome II will use) since it's still base in warscape. It could be tied to certain development level your culture has like it was done in FOTS so that one cannot research the military tech all the way to the reforms straight from starting the game.

For average 300 turns of gameplay I would prefer to play around 100-150 turns pre marian and the rest post marian.

[MagicCuboid]

I'd go with the 100 or so pre-marian turns. Yes I think the reforms should be a tech tree upgrade - after all it was a choice the Romans themselves made. Not like 107 BC hit and they were like, "oh! Christ will be born in 107 years so we better reform our army!"
(just a little glib humor there on arbitrary dates)

What I'm not sure about is if the reforms should actually REPLACE your armies, or if they should just unlock new units and make the old ones unrecruitable. I guess without a full replacement you lose the spirit of the reform itself, though.

[Kuhndog]

I say a full replacement. But you have to retrain them maybe? And it costs you out the butt.

[AngryTitusPullo]

What I hated about the old Rome was that after reform I'm left with these high chevron legions that I have without the ability to retrain. Playing total vanilla I sometimes didn't even have a chance to build the barrack level to be able to recruit Triatii even.

[Cattlehunter]

What I hated about the old Rome was that after reform I'm left with these high chevron legions that I have without the ability to retrain. Playing total vanilla I sometimes didn't even have a chance to build the barrack level to be able to recruit Triatii even.

Those old legions still hang around for hundreds of years if you garrison them somewhere safe and don't move them, though!

Imagine the bueraucratic headache that must be causing behind the scenes!

[saxdude]

Since these reforms are basically just eye candy because they seemingly serve no purpose other than removing the old legions and replacing them with gallic helmets and Loricas, Id like that the old legions slowly replace their armors with the more popular Post-Ceaser look. Like you have the hastati helmets slowly being replaced with gallic helmets and diffrent scutum, maybe the ocasional lorica segmentata and Squamata depending on how experienced they are.
So say your legion gets all the gold chevrons and has loads of experience, then it will be filled of lorica segmentata. As for the new legions, they will be your standard Chainmail suits, until they upgrade.

Naturally, the old legions, given that they already have lots of experience will upgrade their suits quickly, and you will have your "modern" legion out of your old republic legions in no time.

Any other detail of the Marian reforms is anyones guess but Id like this^

[AngryTitusPullo]

Since these reforms are basically just eye candy because they seemingly serve no purpose other than removing the old legions and replacing them with gallic helmets and Loricas, Id like that the old legions slowly replace their armors with the more popular Post-Ceaser look. Like you have the hastati helmets slowly being replaced with gallic helmets and diffrent scutum, maybe the ocasional lorica segmentata and Squamata depending on how experienced they are.
So say your legion gets all the gold chevrons and has loads of experience, then it will be filled of lorica segmentata. As for the new legions, they will be your standard Chainmail suits, until they upgrade.

Naturally, the old legions, given that they already have lots of experience will upgrade their suits quickly, and you will have your "modern" legion out of your old republic legions in no time.

Any other detail of the Marian reforms is anyones guess but Id like this^

This is what I basically want those the emphasis is not just the equipment. The reforms is more abour reorganization of how the roman armies as a unit function. Instead of the old maniple three tier infantry system the army is organize into single infantry formation. The armies are no longer levy base on campaign season basis but become permanent job of some sort.

[King of Thessaly]

It would be cool if instead of having oa bunch of units that are no longer used you could upgrade by what type of barracks

Example (using Rome I):

Militia Barracks Hastati=Auxilia
City Barracks Principes=EL Cohort
Army Barracks Triarii =L Cohort
and so on