THP's Unit Balance thread

**Ulfgard the Unmaker** · July 25, 2013, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Emrys

I never could win with the Scrubs.... Their play style is drastically different from mine. They annoy you to death and I work best with the Darknuts and Hylians. Heavy infantry all the way!

Based on that, I'd recommend a playthrough or two with the Gorons, if you haven't tried them yet.

**The Holy Pilgrim** · July 27, 2013, 03:40 PM

All units for the Gerudo, save for Heroes and Mercs, are done

**The Holy Pilgrim** · July 27, 2013, 06:21 PM

Gorons are done.

Looks like we're making some good progress, here.

**Emrys** · July 27, 2013, 10:01 PM

how different are they? Are their Powder Keg launchers and bomb throwers still delightfully OP?

**Jakeford** · July 27, 2013, 10:12 PM

Hey THP I was just wondering if my army list came in handy at all? I just want to know if I contributed

**The Holy Pilgrim** · July 27, 2013, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Emrys

how different are they? Are their Powder Keg launchers and bomb throwers still delightfully OP?

I can't really say much on every faction right now, but depending on their eventual goal, they may or may not be different.

The Hylians have some pretty good defense and pretty good attack, but they rely on cavalry to deal with faster infantry and missile units and crossbow men to cut down numbers before the enemy reaches the Hylian lines. Their units are generally more expensive, but pound for pound, they are slightly better than the average unit while still under the specialists of other nations. The Hylians can keep their generally low speed under wraps with supporting Mounted Recruits, and should they be engaged by stronger melee units (uncommon, but can happen), their discipline can keep them in the fight so that one could figure out how to deal with problems.

The Gerudo, on the other hand, have very little armor, are rather loosely packed, and don't quite have the discipline that the Hylians have. They do possess, however, a faster movement speed (save for Knuckles), a higher diversity in ranged units (and since they use bows, they can produce more firepower than Hylian Crossbowmen), and a plethora of mounted units. The areas where they are weak can be covered by mobility and missile fire (along with some of their magic units).

The Gorons are proving to be very strong; though not quite so much stronger than other factions as they do in vanilla Hyrule. Their Guardians, Berzerkers, and Dodongos are fast enough to deal with certain mounted and missile units (the only think that they don't seem to catch are the Gerudo Mounted Dune Archers, Mounted Scouts, and sometimes the Hylian Mounted Recruits) while Tribal Monks and Guardians (dual role!) can hold the line. Miners are effective at dealing with highly armored targets (Guardians and Berzerkers can reasonably deal with these threats, but they are more designed to hold the line and hit weak points in the enemy lines, respectively), and Bomb Throwers (on foot and the platform variety) are strong enough to punch enough holes in the enemy lines for your Berzerkers to roll in and bust some skulls.

Ruby Guards and Fire Warriors are essentially slower, but more effective, Guardians and Berzerkers, respectively, with Mounted Fire Warriors sacrificing a little power for a bit more speed.

Originally Posted by Jakeford

Hey THP I was just wondering if my army list came in handy at all? I just want to know if I contributed

Yes, it is coming quite handy in deciding what each faction should strive to be. Along with Neph's descriptions in each faction's development thread and Xebenkeck's post about Deku Tribe strategies, your post is helping immensely.

But please, if anybody has ideas about how each faction should act and behave, do not be afraid to post them. I am not an expert in LoZ lore, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

**Jakeford** · August 17, 2013, 10:44 PM

Bump again. Making any progress?

**Jakeford** · October 17, 2013, 09:25 PM

Hello? Dump. I have made my own submod, but I am sure that this one will be considerably better. Have you been working on it?

Also, I might as well add onto my list that I posted on this thread months earlier.

Ancient Hylians-Ancient knights make great heavy infantry, wind tribe soldiers make good light infantry, the ancient archers and the ancient mages make very good ranges units, however they lack melee cavalry, army really isn't that diverse.

NPC factions next.

Zuna-Good light spearmen and pretty much the best crossbowmen (crossbowmen, not missile troops in general) in the game when it comes to ranged skill.

Horon-Horon soldiers make decent line infantry while the mystics keep their moral up.

Tokay-Soldiers are quick, but poorly armed and trained, limited combat experience, and they are stupid.

Huskus-Soldiers are very good are ripping apart the enemies, but they are few in number.

Subrosia-Ore nights are great heavy infantry, the rest of their units are just basic militias.

Occa-Few in number but soldiers are very powerful because of their divine powers and their god like technology VASTLY superior to the other factions, even Labrynna, however they are few in number.

Church of Majora-Can recruit units from any faction that worships him, majora's demons are scary and relatively powerful.

**Lortano** · October 19, 2013, 08:02 PM

[QUOTE=Jakeford;13326828]
Ancient Hylians-Ancient knights make great heavy infantry, wind tribe soldiers make good light infantry, the ancient archers and the ancient mages make very good ranges units, however they lack melee cavalry, army really isn't that diverse.[QUOTE]

You forgot to add 'Loftwing Cavaliers'- OP as

.

**Zaridan** · October 25, 2013, 06:11 AM

Is it possible for you to give a file or have the stat's copy-able? I'm having a difficult time trying to apply them.

**Apani** · October 26, 2013, 06:43 AM

You know what they say, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Give a man a scribbled scroll and you feed him for a lifetime.
Let's try:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Zaridan** · October 29, 2013, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Apani

You know what they say, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Give a man a scribbled scroll and you feed him for a lifetime.
Let's try:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Thanks Apani, I've been trying to get them but failed (somewhat obvious).

**Apani** · October 27, 2013, 10:54 AM

THP, in the case it's going to take much time to complete the rebalance, would you mind writing down the stats you have modified so far on the first post, so we can already benefit of an at least partial rebalance?

**Apani** · October 30, 2013, 07:11 AM

Did you read any guide on internet? There's a mini tutorial at the start of export_descr_unit which should help, too.
Anyway, I don't see much use in having only five units rebalanced, since they'll probably just be disadvantaged against other troops.
So, since catechism taught me that everybody's contribuition is important in its unicity, I decided to try to rebalance units by myself, starting with Labrynna, my favourite faction. I must say that the hardest thing to do so far is to create a formula to decide attack and defense skill values, but I hope to get past it.

Here I try:

Labrynna Stats

**Apani** · November 03, 2013, 11:14 AM

I've tried to rebalance again, this time following the Real Combat formula, they're not written in a pleasant way, but you can have a look:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Warrior536** · November 04, 2013, 07:05 PM

That guide looks mighty interesting. I'll take a look at it and see what I can do with it.

**Apani** · November 06, 2013, 03:48 PM

Good news (for me, at least): I've almost partially completed (note the expression) Ordonian and Labrynnian roosters. My practical tests reveal this: Labrynnian are usually advantaged in direct foot battles (Cannon Fodder vs Farmers, Homeguards vs Militiamen...) thanks to professional training and better equipment (a bullseye shield is still a shield), whereas Horsemen manage to steamroll entire light units in one charge but will be arrested by the heavy Knights of Ambi and the Palace Watch. Goat Lords can throw into the air Knights of Ambi as well and can break Palace Watch after repeated charges, but are vulnerable in a prolonged fight (Goats are cataphracts, but their riders wear leather). On the missile area, farmer archers mounted and dismounted are uneffective against even the lightest units, who still wear metal armors or shield. Rangers on other hand can shoot lethal arrows, run away (note: I removed their speed bonus due to how heavily armed they are, but they can still outrun units with shields) and finish the last enemies in melee, but they cannot break a shield wall of Palace Watch marching against them. Pathfinders are faster, hardier and better armored, but they're inferior to Rangers in both melee and ranged combat (Light Crossbow vs Longbow, Knife vs Sword). Gunners are now way stronger, both in melee and ranged, mainly thanks to their elite training (giving the guns the same melee properties of a club didn't hurt either), and are very fast runners to compensate their lack of armor, but their need for a direct line of sight means they can easily get oneshot by cavalry. They can beat Rangers and drive a force of Goat Lords into panicking if they're lucky, but they'll be trampled to death in one second if they're not. Actually, every Labrynnian missile unit is either forced to shoot in a weak trajectory from the backs of melee soldiers / cannon fodder or be exposed to deadly cavalry charges when they're present. Too bad nobody thought of giving guns or crossbows to Tokay. Economically, I picture Labrynnian units as way more expensive (chainmals, large shields, crossbows) whereas Ordonians can quickly raise peasant armies equipped with tools of everyday life (Hunting bows, Wood axes), but the country will feel the lack of workforce if too many are kept standing. The cavalry and Rangers are either slow to train or replenish, since people who have spent their whole lives riding or scouting don't pass by everyday, whereas there are more citiziens who can be taught to use Guns, Swords or Weird Poleblades (I listed them as Voulges) proficiently.

**k/t** · November 06, 2013, 05:48 PM

RC and RR guides in this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Update/page46

**Apani** · November 07, 2013, 07:07 AM

Thanks a lot, that'll be very useful.
I've tried to come up with racial boni for Tokays and reorganize them according to the WIP version:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Shortly, Reptiles have all heat penalties set to zero, get a +2 desert bonus and a -2 snow malus and an additional snow penalty equal to the heat penalty removed.

**Verdantagent** · November 11, 2013, 02:17 AM

A unit that gave major grief to me with little logical purpose whenever I played Gorons was running into a Zora army, slaughtering them to the last man and seeing that the very last unit I had to face is the invincible-to-melee Mage Spire. Essentially it is 3 Zora mages strapped to an armored crystal to project shockwaves. Everytime I surround this unit 1 or 2 hours later my entire army gets decimated because my ranged units do not have the ammunition or the real necessity to be in my troop composition. At the point that 10-11 units of goron guardians or miners are swarming this one tower doesn't it make sense that they could kill the mages or pry apart the golden armor from the crystal?

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