Overhand spears for cavalry and greek hoplites

**Destraex** · July 11, 2012, 09:53 PM

I seem to remember one of the original rome1 complaints was that the hoplite formations were not really any different from the macedonian phalanx except of course for spear length.

Hoplite formations should lock their huge shields and have their spear overhead,
Macedonian Phalanx should have little shield protection and use their massive spears underhand as defence.

cavalry also used spears overhand in this period a lot simply because the impact underhand would knock them flying due to lack of styrups and good saddle support.

I look forward to seeing this fixed in rome2.

My question to the community would be however to ask how the cavalry with longer spears were able to impact?

**King of Thessaly** · July 11, 2012, 09:58 PM

Agreed.

**AngryTitusPullo** · July 11, 2012, 10:01 PM

I don't think cavalry have this much impact like medieval knights. Cavalry I believe were more use on battlefield to harass and instill fear for infantry especially if they're coming from the rear.

**Toho** · July 11, 2012, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by LestaT

I don't think cavalry have this much impact like medieval knights. Cavalry I believe were more use on battlefield to harass and instill fear for infantry especially if they're coming from the rear.

Cataphracts would like to have a word with you...

**AngryTitusPullo** · July 11, 2012, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Toho

Cataphracts would like to have a word with you...

They don't have bunch of them. Mostly bodyguards.

In any case I'm talking about cavalry with longer spears as the OP stated since there's no stirrup at that time if I'm not mistaken. That makes longer spears are more difficult to use optimally rather that shorter, easier to wield shorter spears.

**Shaggy1973** · July 12, 2012, 01:52 AM

depends on the cavalry and time period.

romans didn't really bother too much with good cavalry, but other countries did.

overhand animation would be required where accurate.

**IGdood** · July 12, 2012, 01:58 AM

What were Roman cavalry usually armed with? Javelins + short sword?

**AngryTitusPullo** · July 12, 2012, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by IGdood

What were Roman cavalry usually armed with? Javelins + short sword?

Longer swords than standard legionary swords I believe.

**MagicCuboid** · July 12, 2012, 02:02 AM

Or a short spear, yeah. And a helmet. They didn't even wear underwear in the early days... Gallantry hadn't quite been invented for the horsemen

**Yomamashouse** · July 12, 2012, 02:27 AM

I don't quite get your question... do you mean how did pre-medieval heavy cavalry and lancers impact the enemy without being ejected from their horse? I imagine the heavier ones were slower and also heavier, perhaps eliminating the problem.

**Destraex** · July 12, 2012, 05:02 AM

I did see another thread that apparently debunked the myth that cavalry without stirrups could not impact properly.
I simply cannot believe they had the same impact as medieval lancers and suspect they were more easily unhorsed.

**Asgaroth** · July 12, 2012, 06:41 AM

I would like to add to this topic.

That they should make an animation for the hoplites that they can use both the overhead and underhead fighting style.

When locked shields the hoplites need to use the overhead fighting as there is no space for them to use underhead due to locked shields, but on the otherhand when they break that formation they could use both of those fighting styles and it would make the soldiers seem more realistic not like robots, that they run around with their spears over their head.