What is a proper unit composition of numbered legions?

[moredrowsy]

Hey guys, I know there's a lot of history experts here but can you help me clarify the details of a named/numbered legions corresponding to the actual legion stack?

I'm specifically talking about the marian legions. From my current understanding, I have a numbered legion with one general, one 1st cohort with nine regular cohorts, four cav and the rest 4 light infantry (foreign or roman light infantry). However, this makes up one stack.

Does one numbered legion represent only one stack? Can it have reserves of another stack? If it's a 1:1 ratio of numbered legions to stack, it's very low in man power.

However, I remember reading history texts with pompei, julius caser, brutus and etc having 15 or more legions. So are some legions not numbered? Heck, by the beginning of the imperial period, Augustus supposedly dispanded 30 legions from 65 to 35 legions. There's a huge discrepancy in named/numbered legions and the actual legion stacks. There's 16 named legions but the total legions that Augustus kept were around 30-35ish.

Can someone care to explain?

[Roger Smith]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ht=composition

[Kuhndog]

There were 50 Legions when Augustus became the Emperor of Rome. He disbanded 22 of these Legions, thus being left with only 28. I believe those are the 28 Legions in this mod.

So there are 28 different Legions.

[moredrowsy]

ooh! Thanks a lot guys!

[moredrowsy]

Sorry for the double post but which units are the proper auxilia for post marian reforms? Since the only infantry I can recruit besides the legionaires are either Roman Antesignani or Roman Evocat in the italian penninsula. But the antesignani are like velites. However, the Roman Evocati is not auxilia since they are roman citizens.

[Kuhndog]

Sorry for the double post but which units are the proper auxilia for post marian reforms? Since the only infantry I can recruit besides the legionaires are either Roman Antesignani or Roman Evocat in the italian penninsula. But the antesignani are like velites. However, the Roman Evocati is not auxilia since they are roman citizens.

You still have one more building to go, and then you get Praetorians and a lot of Auxilia troops I believe.

[moredrowsy]

I don't want to enter the imperial stages yet (or rather I don't want praetorian legions). If I build the early praetorian building, then I won't be able to retrain the Legio VII Claudia Pia Fidelis legions anymore.
Also, the curia hostilia will added auxilia troops but then I won't be able to retrain republican legions. I still want auxilia troops with the republican legions. The roman fortress does not offer any auxilia heavy infantry. Why is that?!

[Zydrius]

If I build the early praetorian building, then I won't be able to retrain the Legio VII Claudia Pia Fidelis legions anymore.

Well you can train or retrain Legio VII not only in Rome but in some other settlements as well (check Aleria, Caralis, Sicily island settlements, maybe Massalia, Pollentia,..), so build Praetorians building in Rome as nowhere else you'll be able to do that. Also upgrade Circus Maximus (or how it's called) building to get fearsome and deadly Roman Praetorian cavalry).

Also, the curia hostilia will added auxilia troops but then I won't be able to retrain republican legions. I still want auxilia troops with the republican legions. The roman fortress does not offer any auxilia heavy infantry. Why is that?!

Yep, I missed auxilia for republic legions too but probably there theren't such formation in that period. you can alway use merceneries or local (not roman) troops hired in settlements as support/auxilia for you legions as you won't get archers or cavalry in other way ;(.

[Nerouin]

I don't want to enter the imperial stages yet (or rather I don't want praetorian legions). If I build the early praetorian building, then I won't be able to retrain the Legio VII Claudia Pia Fidelis legions anymore.

Legio VII CPF is recruitable in Capua as well.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Legio VII CPF is recruitable in Capua as well.

As well as all the islands and points East......

[moredrowsy]

Oh thanks for the info. I didn't know you can recruit the same legions in the other settlements when you upgrade the main building in Rome.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

There's several questions posed - I hope I can help answer some.

For legion composition, there have been many threads, my own (for each period) is at the beginning of the long AAR-type thread here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=530912

Others you have been pointed to...

The 28 (29 with the Praetorians, which is not entirely accurate, but liked) legions you can recruit are a selection from the approximate, but not entire, Early Imperial period. Octavian/Augustus did indeed inherit some 50-60 at the end of the Civil War with Mark Antony and reduce them to the original 27/28. However, the XVII, XVIII & XVIIII/XIX were lost in the Varus disaster of 9AD. Caligula raised the total to 27 again by recruiting XV Primigenia, which isn't included, and XXII Primigenia, which is - etc (I can do the whole list if desirable).

As an aside, having spoken to the Team - they do have models for some of the other 'missing' legions, but there is a 500(?) total for the game that can't be exceeded - so some had to go.....

For your Marian Legions support troops - the accurate ones are those you can recruit in Client States or those given Citizenship at the same time as the 'Generic' ones. Regular Imperial Auxilia didn't appear until later - and in the game from the Curia Hostilia.

As something to look forward to, as indeed the post-Marian Late Republic covers the latter half of the actual time period of the game, in v2.6 - your 'Generic' 1st Cohorts will also now be individually named and numbered to help to keep track.

[moredrowsy]

Interesting! I guess some named/numbered legions just didn't make it to the history books when they got disbanded by Augustus. So in v2.6, will the highest level barrrack before building the roman fortress allow recruitment of named/numbered legions or is that just for the 1st cohort?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Interesting! I guess some named/numbered legions just didn't make it to the history books when they got disbanded by Augustus. So in v2.6, will the highest level barrrack before building the roman fortress allow recruitment of named/numbered legions or is that just for the 1st cohort?

Neatly re-enabled by dvk' from what many will have seen in BI...

In v2.6 the Campus Martius (Oppidum in Area 6), just following (Phase 1 of) the Imperial/Marian Reforms (ie just after Akragas gets the Imperial Palace) will be able to recruit the Generic 1st and Legionary Cohorts for the Late Republic period - just as they do now.

The difference will be that, when you recruit a 1st Cohort it will be given a number in sequence and a name based upon its recruitment location. Thus, I recruited two 1st Cohorts in Roma and they became 'Legio I Veneria' and 'Legio II Veneria'. Other names I have seen are: Messapiana (from Tarentum); Sicanica (Sicily); and Corsica (Aleria).

If a player therefore wishes to play the Late Republic in more detail (as fits RSII's timeframe more than the Imperial period legions do in fact - but much less pretty mind you); then they will be able to recruit at least a 1st Cohort that identifies their 'legion' much nicer - each with their own number and name.

[century x]

This one is a good one too
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151875

[5th Lieutenant]

The difference will be that, when you recruit a 1st Cohort it will be given a number in sequence and a name based upon its recruitment location. Thus, I recruited two 1st Cohorts in Roma and they became 'Legio I Veneria' and 'Legio II Veneria'. Other names I have seen are: Messapiana (from Tarentum); Sicanica (Sicily); and Corsica (Aleria).

If a player therefore wishes to play the Late Republic in more detail (as fits RSII's timeframe more than the Imperial period legions do in fact - but much less pretty mind you); then they will be able to recruit at least a 1st Cohort that identifies their 'legion' much nicer - each with their own number and name.

Sweet holy mother of all that's good! That was possibly the only thing missing from RSII and it's been implimented?! We are not worthy!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Sweet holy mother of all that's good! That was possibly the only thing missing from RSII and it's been implimented?! We are not worthy!

Whilst I may have suggested it and the Team discussed it, all praise is due to dvk'; for he implemented it beautifully and took the idea to a new level.

I rather love, as do many, the 'proper' named and numbered Imperial Legions, even though they are not historically part of the game's planned time period - but who wouldn't.

But, for anyone who wishes to play the Later Republic to completion, then it's a great addition; so much so that I may one day try it and find out exactly how many names/regions he did put in!

[5th Lieutenant]

Whilst I may have suggested it and the Team discussed it, all praise is due to dvk'; for he implemented it beautifully and took the idea to a new level.

All credit and praise to all those involved

[Drowsy]

All credit and praise to all those involved

Indeed can't wait to try this out, spend most of my games lingering in the late republic era. Damn awesome!

[Sertorio]

After this we will need only a two-phase regional campaign...Caesar versus Pompey and then Octavius versus Mark Antony.