Poll : Army must have Wagon train

[Rorarii]

Where troops can resupply in the battle by moving back to the train. Also enemy units might ignore fighting and just PILLAGE you train (as happened in many battles)

R

[Colonel Dax]

I would love to see this, or an expansion of logistics in general.

[oppaiO_O]

expansion of logistics in general.

this

[Raimeken]

I don't want to see it on the battlefield, I would welcome it if it would become an element on the campaign map. Maybe every full legion can only hold a certain amount of food and defeating other armies allow you to increase the food supply. Also if there is an ambush, your enemy automatically raids all of your food supplies and after the ambush, not only you have a greatly weakened force (if the enemy defeated you or you had a close victory), your supply train would be empty and you need to either retreat or force march which causes morale problems among your troops.

[Philippus]

I don't want to see it on the battlefield, I would welcome it if it would become an element on the campaign map.

I agree

[Intranetusa]

Raiding wagon trains would allow smaller armies to defeat huge full stack armies by using guerrilla tactics! Sounds awesome!

[HappyGoodVibes]

it's a good idea but the implementation would need to be worked on. I voted yes

[the_mango55]

No, too complicated and unnecessary. This can all be done in an abstract mannor without making pointless units. For example, units don't get replenished in enemy territory, units suffer greater attrition in enemy territory (both already present) and units have a higher upkeep in enemy territory (could be implemented easily).

[Drtad]

No, too complicated and unnecessary. This can all be done in an abstract mannor without making pointless units. For example, units don't get replenished in enemy territory, units suffer greater attrition in enemy territory (both already present) and units have a higher upkeep in enemy territory (could be implemented easily).

Agreed. Perhaps defending or destroying a wagon train could play a role in ambushes but not in run-of-the-mill battles.

[Ichon]

It might be worth doing if units could actually be made to pillage the wagons in battle realistically but I can't see how that would happen. Otherwise abstracting it to campaign map makes the most sense if its even present. Personally I'd prefer another type of logistics.

[myself]

It would definitely be cool, but might be hard to implement in a nice way. Anyway, I voted yes.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

If they really wanted to, they could include fortified camps. But I'd rather have a wagon train you can raid instead of attacking the army itself during an ambush.

[driecken]

Where troops can resupply in the battle by moving back to the train. Also enemy units might ignore fighting and just PILLAGE you train (as happened in many battles)

R

This is a neat idea, but reminds me of Rise of Nations, I see the realism aspect but, at the end of the day I would rather have an extra cavalry unit or something else in that card slot.

[Wodeson]

Baggage trains and fortified camps on the tactical battlefield would be welcome. They add an addtional tactical element to battles, and historically were a big deal.

[Sgt.Valenzuela]

This is a neat idea, but reminds me of Rise of Nations, I see the realism aspect but, at the end of the day I would rather have an extra cavalry unit or something else in that card slot.

they can make it as a non military unit that doesn't add to the overall count. so say... hoping for a 40unit per army again Per 10military units it opens 1 support unit slot .... something like that.

[Deadly Rabbit]

Yep. The French raid on the English baggage train at agincourt, hunnic Waggon laagers etc. vital to the army on the march and frequently a factor on the battlefield. I imagine rather difficult to depict in game though.

[Asgaroth]

I agree on the idea.

When you attack an army on the field for example if you play as the gauls and ambush an roman army, when you enter the battlefield there should be roman wagons with supplies.

[AgentGB]

I also mentioned the same idea in another thread, having a supply wagon unit, that could allow longer durations of campaigning, or fielding a bigger army for a shorter campaign, and since you start in column when ambushed, the wagons would be at the back, making them a primary target for ambushers.

Someone else also made a suggestion, on how a supply system could work, wagons could work with somthing like this below i think?

Originally Posted by Shigawire Here's an idea I had back in 2006 for a mod called EB - but we were unable to because of hardcoded limitations.

Full yet simple system for army supply, attrition, morale

Premise: Army/Legion must be identifiable with its own "traits" - Perhaps this is what CA is trying to do for Rome 2?
In any case, the idea was this: The Army/Legion have their own respective traits, morale, supplies.

Supply:
Newly formed legion starts with 100% supplies, in home territory.
Maximum 90% supplied in colonies (if you play Rome, it could be anywhere outside Latium province)

Crossing into neutral or enemy territory, the "countdown" starts. The supplies at 100% drop by X% each turn, until it's near starvation point. This countdown represents the distance and perseverence of the supply line. For example local civilian guerilla attacks can reduce the supply line.
The rate of the countdown (X%) will require hands-on balancing, and is wholly dependent on how many turns a year, move distance per turn etc.
Historically, each "commeatus" (supply line) consisted of depots, granaries and a port. Each commeatus had enough food to last for at least 1 campaigning season. So 2 of these supply complexes (commeatus) would give you the ability to field 1 army for 2 campaign seasons - or conversely 2 armies for 1 campaign season.
Field 2 legions from March -> Winter,
or
Field 1 legion from March->winter->March->winter (2 campaigning seasons)

Attrition Zones
Move your army on terrain like this, start to lose both morale, supplies and/or lives (to varying degrees)
Winter in enemy territory
Mountain pass (Alps f.ex.)
Deserts
Marshes

Foraging on specific tiles on coordinates of strategic interest:
Move your army over any of these, and get a temporary reprieve from poor supplies/morale
Foraging will lower your relationship with the host country. So if you are foraging in Neutral country, you could end up alienating them.
Grain fields, estates, olive trees, farms (reset supplies to 80%
Or perhaps a granary (f.ex. Cannae) (reset supplies to 100%)
Oasis (handy if you're in the Desert) (reset supplies to 60%)
etc


- Tech upgrades -

"Greek siege tactics" P. Sulpicius Galba was impressed when he first witnessed Macedon's siege train. 20 years later in 190 BC, the Romans had copied the Macedon siege model, and for the first time started constructing their own siege towers and machinery for the assaults.
-Reduce supply usage by 10%
-Allow construction of siege towers before assault
-Sapping
-etc
(can be broken down into separate techs)

Operational Supply base
-Moving forward the supply line's anchor. This can be as little as a day's march from the Army.
Increases supply line range. Return your army here to become 70% supplied
You are till vulnerable. if the enemy hits this, your army will suffer a great morale drop.
Maintaining this should cost money per turn. Extending a campaign into deep territory should be expensive.

Legion/Army retinue and traits:
Hunters
Hunting becomes less of a chore, more of a sport. More meat for the dogs of war.
Criteria: Forage successfully in forests or near hunting lodges without enemy interruptions 3 consecutive times.
Award: +5% supply per successful forage attempt

Hunter 2 (replaces Hunter 1)
Criteria: 6 consecutive times
Award: +10% from foraging
etc++

Cunning Quartermaster
This man cleverly reinvests your officers' superfluous rations to the common soldiers without either party knowing.
Criteria: Maintain a supply of over 50% for an entire Campaign Season
Award: 5% less drop in supplies per turn


Army Morale
When Morale is 100%, the soldiers (as normal) don't break as easily in combat.
If the leader is exceptional, the Army Morale can be maintained at near 90-100% into the deepest campaigns (Alexander, Hannibal).
Morale will drop if you lose battles, or if you lost an Operational Supply Base, or other major negative events.
If Morale drops, you can return to friendly territory and spend money on army entertainment f.ex.


Supply + Morale interaction
When Morale reaches 0%, wholesale desertions ensue.
If supplied over 50%, Morale gets an automatic 25% minimum position. Morale will not drop below half of your supplies. The men may be sad they lost the battle, but they still have enough supplies to get them through the day, or maybe back home.

Morale is always affected by your supplies. If you lost a couple battles, but are still well supplied, your army will not desert so readily. But your Supplies are affected by your wins/losses as well. Winning over the enemy and capturing their own supplies, can make your supplies go up. So if you lost a battle, the chances are you lost some supplies in the process.
A brilliant leader can still make his men follow him, boosting morale by actions he take. Some actions cost money, etc.

So you have 2 levers to affect and alleviate your chances of losing your army completely.

[jimmy425]

i think its a good idea but it would get annoying is every battle the ai would start by just sprinting towards your wagons ignoring everything else.

[Asuryan]

Actually, I've been wanting that for a long long time. Though I don't think it's supposed to take up any unit slots as I believe typical armies will need them anyway. More like, 1-2 wagons per a unit?