Should spears dropped be magically re-spawned?

[Destraex]

In Rome1 if a phalanx or spear armed cavalry unit swapped to secondary weapon the spear could re-appear any time.

My question is should the player be able to determine if the soldiers automatically go to their secondary weapon and their fore lose the primary spear permanently for that engagement.

For instance you want your cataphracts to go in hard with their lances. If you do not press the "release lances" button then they will only jab at the enemy.
If you do they will go for maximum impact and impale the enemy, losing their spear and having to use secondary for the rest of the battle.

I always wanted this in med2. I hated that shock heavy cavalry kept "re-loading" lances with no support squires etc in sight to give them spares.

[SonOfCrusader76]

Kind of connected with this: it would be good if weapons are visibly drawn at the start of a battle.

On topic: why not have more control over it? Rome 2 will be a purely melee game (apart from a few exceptions), so the usual 'melee combat' key could force a switch to the secondary weapon.

[Shea O'Gorath]

If implemented correctly I could see this being a nice feature as long as it dosent over complicate things

[Destraex]

In Rome1 I remember you could force a switch to secondary. My problem was that you moved half way across the map away from where you put your spears down and then they magically re-spawned. This takes away a lot of the tactical aspect of the game. The spears want to keep their advantage as long as possible and the attacker needs to disrupt the formation. If you are spear armed cavalry you need to choose your one big moment to use your lances for impact, it should not be repeated again and again??

Then again with regard to the Parthians I imagine they had supply wagons near at hand or squires to replenish?? If so these should be attackable.

[SonOfCrusader76]

So maybe we could have a system like Empire's plug bayonets? Once you've turned your musket into a 'pike', there's no going back - so once you've dropped your pike to draw your sword, there's no going back? That's the only way I can see it working.

Edit: I remember being able to force Pila slingers to engage in melee straight away, but was there a way to force pikemen to draw their swords? I don't remember.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

So maybe we could have a system like Empire's plug bayonets? Once you've turned your musket into a 'pike', there's no going back - so once you've dropped your pike to draw your sword, there's no going back? That's the only way I can see it working.

Edit: I remember being able to force Pila slingers to engage in melee straight away, but was there a way to force pikemen to draw their swords? I don't remember.

sounds like a great idea!!!!!
I cant really see any problem in that, only the many mistake im going to make =S.
But danmit! it is one of the better idea I have read in a long time.(1 week)
I approve that

[Greve Af Göteborg]

There was a way to use your phalanx units as swordsmen. You'd just turn off phalanx mode and then charge your phalanx unit into the enemy, they'd switch to swords.
And then the pikes/sarissas would reappear when they were done.

[alQamar]

i think it would be nice to see how many spears / pilae they still carry on the models. or even arrows in the bag of archers of romans usually had 2 of them. this would make it nice to wait and make tactical decisions. (as long you have not a restricted cam)

but in fact it would cost a lot of cpu power to do this and so the magical "spawn" perhaps is still the better solution over realism and dropping picking up spears.

There was a way to use your phalanx units as swordsmen. You'd just turn off phalanx mode and then charge your phalanx unit into the enemy, they'd switch to swords.
And then the pikes/sarissas would reappear when they were done.

or use the alternate attack key (ctrl)

[SonOfCrusader76]

i think it would be nice to see how many spears / pilae they still carry on the models. or even arrows in the bag of archers of romans usually had 2 of them. this would make it nice to wait and make tactical decisions. (as long you have not a restricted cam)

but in fact it would cost a lot of cpu power to do this and so the magical "spawn" perhaps is still the better solution over realism and dropping picking up spears.

So maybe we could have a system like Empire's plug bayonets? Once you've turned your musket into a 'pike', there's no going back - so once you've dropped your pike to draw your sword, there's no going back? That's the only way I can see it working.

Regardless of the fact that it's my idea, I still reckon it's the best compromise.

There was a way to use your phalanx units as swordsmen. You'd just turn off phalanx mode and then charge your phalanx unit into the enemy, they'd switch to swords.
And then the pikes/sarissas would reappear when they were done.

I haven't played Rome for a very long time...

[Destraex]

The plug bayonet idea is exactly the way it should be implimented.

[the_mango55]

So maybe we could have a system like Empire's plug bayonets? Once you've turned your musket into a 'pike', there's no going back - so once you've dropped your pike to draw your sword, there's no going back? That's the only way I can see it working.

Edit: I remember being able to force Pila slingers to engage in melee straight away, but was there a way to force pikemen to draw their swords? I don't remember.

Would be neat, but it would have to be an active button press. I don't want to have my troops drop their pikes automatically as soon as a half dead cavalry unit hits them in the flank and there's another phalanx 5 seconds away from rescuing them.

But for example if there was an elite unit that was good with both sword and pike, in a siege you could have them drop their pikes to climb the walls and they could fight as an excellent and versitile sword unit for the battle.

It brings back memories of the fantastic Chivalric Knights (and equally fantastic poleaxe armed Dismounted Chivalric knights) from the original MTW and I start to salavate.

[Rorarii]

The plug bayonet idea is exactly the way it should be implimented.

yes but unless the unit moves back to the wagon train and get new spears / pilum / arrows / javelins etc

R

[Sina84]

Why not just have the same system as with the ladders/catapults etc. Leave em on the ground when you go sword, and pick them up again whenever.

[Raimeken]

The old system was fine, I like it that way. I would rather CA simply clean up phalanx bugs rather than try to implement a complex system of dropping spears and drawing swords and such and such.

[HappyGoodVibes]

cav should have some lances break when they charge too. After the lance breaks they switch to whatever their secondary weapon is. after a while their charge becomes less effective as they lose lances

[Ichon]

I can see this system for infantry going to secondary weapons but there would need to be another solution for cavalry. Perhaps at least 2-3 lance charges but at reduced effectiveness each time as fewer men in the unit have retained or replaced their lances.

[karamazovmm]

While the idea is realistic, its completely impractical for a common strategy game player. I never bore much love for the fuel system from that not to be named space sim used, imagine to determine troop deployment based on how much fuel each ship had, along with ammunition complement, and suddenly the flank is overrun and you are out of fuel and ammunition to rescue those guys. Realistic? yes! Frustrating? Completely.

It would be extremely troublesome to go charge the enemy, go back to your supply line get new lances, go back again to the fray, rinse and repeat after each charge, and got forbid that they should have new mounts and swords as well. I wonder if we could do the same as well to the missile troops, and of course melee troops need new swords, after all they dent when clashed against shields and other hard surfaces.

I do dislike the lances appearing magically from some unnamed hole, however a its a more practical approach.

[HappyGoodVibes]

While the idea is realistic, its completely impractical for a common strategy game player. I never bore much love for the fuel system from that not to be named space sim used, imagine to determine troop deployment based on how much fuel each ship had, along with ammunition complement, and suddenly the flank is overrun and you are out of fuel and ammunition to rescue those guys. Realistic? yes! Frustrating? Completely.

It would be extremely troublesome to go charge the enemy, go back to your supply line get new lances, go back again to the fray, rinse and repeat after each charge, and got forbid that they should have new mounts and swords as well. I wonder if we could do the same as well to the missile troops, and of course melee troops need new swords, after all they dent when clashed against shields and other hard surfaces.

I do dislike the lances appearing magically from some unnamed hole, however a its a more practical approach.

if the troop equipment responded to the environment, it would create a much more dynamic battlefield situation. I don't think anyone wants to have to go back to the supply train and get new equipment and such, but it would be nice for lances to break or spears to drop or break and then switch to a secondary weapon. secondary weapons at that point never break, for gameplay's sake.

That way, cavalry charges mean more but are "weaked" after the initial charge. I am not sure how you would manage infantry, perhaps something to do with a phalanx unit that retreats is very crippled because they drop their spears or something along those lines. In general, infantry units shouldn't have their weapons break simply because the lances breaking are to show that a cav charge is a big event whereas infantry fighting is more regular without such "shock" that the weapons they are using break.

I believe it would be a good gameplay element in terms of giving cavalry a special treatment and a new feel for Total War veterans, as well as making some units such as phalanx retreating mean a little more when they drop their main weapons and run.

Actually, now that I think about it I remember phalanx raised their pikes as a sign of surrender, so perhaps they retreat, but if they are persued by a unit, then they drop their pikes to run away more quickly? Maybe that is too complicated, but the cavalry lances I still believe is a good game feature and would look cool too if lances broke off in people or something like that.

[Ichon]

Well this is not medieval era- there won't be quite as many lances impaling people and breaking off. Cavalry charged and probably quite a few lost their lances at some point buts its not a couched 5 meter lance.

[karamazovmm]

what is the length of the xystos? yeah.

but more to the point each subsequent charge from the cavalry already deals less damage. Due to the stamina mechanics. Thats why I put forth that its troublesome to go back and get fresh mounts.

People simply moved forward, charged, melee, came back, resupplied joined the fray again. Im not a military historian to know how much they did that, what armies usually did that and what period that was common.

What I do know is that from a gameplay POV, this idea along to have a single unit dedicated to be a supply wagon, is not fun, though undoubtedly realistic, really not fun

Just look at that example that I gave you, its from Masters of Orion, people love the game, I do like it, but its a real headache sometimes, much like EU3