CA Petition : Rome needs LAWS

[Rorarii]

Giving Rome a tech tree is like giving a goat a spinning wheel. Rome was a political animal and since the 12 tablets - LAWS the senate passed were rigorously enforced. When other nations collpased into civil wars and destruction over power sharing, the Roman Republican legal system kept some sanity and little blood shed.

Rome 2 needs to show some of this and what better than Laws - policies so a player can guide his nation down different paths. You don't need ALL laws just those that were important.

LAWS; (in no prticular order)

(1) Freedom for slave, slaves can earn their freedom (yes / no)
(2) Land for the Plebs, land access for the commoner had always been sort after since the early republic. If new territory is conquered it can be ; sold (advantage rich; plebs furious); kept by the Senate (advantage rich); allocated to soldiers (advantage commoner; patricans unhappy).
(3) Citizenship for service, offered to certain allies and defeated foes etc (a biggy that transformed the amount of manpower available to Rome for her armies)
(4) Full time professional army (During the Republic the army was a militia, only paid when on campaign, during the marian reforms (i think??) the army became fully professional (??). Pass this law and armies become better but more expensive)
etc

These above aren't totally accurate but readers will get the idea. Each time a player plays Rome, they can try different laws to see what happens!

R

[Sol Invictus]

I agree. The Roman faction will seem sterile without Laws being implemented in some way.

[MasterBigAb]

I like the idea, having different directions you can choose, stricter or more generous - but it could be a bit like in MEII the pope election, you can vote for a law or against it, but you can not be sure the outcome will be the same, depending on how good your relations to other politicians are, so you have to keep a majority pleased and on your side in order to ensure them following "your path".
That's how I could imagen it working nicely

[Rorarii]

I like the idea, having different directions you can choose, stricter or more generous - but it could be a bit like in MEII the pope election, you can vote for a law or against it, but you can not be sure the outcome will be the same, depending on how good your relations to other politicians are, so you have to keep a majority pleased and on your side in order to ensure them following "your path".
That's how I could imagen it working nicely

Even better ..

CA you don't have to abandon your half completed tech tree for Rome, just add laws as another feature. Tech tree can still work with military development ???

R

[Philippus]

Yes I agree

In Rome 2, there could be entire political structure of ancient Rome, with the Senate, the positions of the Cursus honorum, the laws, political relations of the characters and etc. All this linked to a political system with implications for campaign strategy. If the player obtain certain requirements in the game, he could promulgate the law.

For the barbarian factions a tribal political system.

Hellenic factions with their monarchies and republics.

Factions of East with their monarchies.

I understand that you do not need 100% historically accurate at the expense of gameplay.

But a strategy game, part of a franchise for 12 years, expected by thousands of players, deserves an depth and detail epics.

Total War is a historic franchise for PC games, I lived these games for 12 years and hopefully ever more depth and detail.

[PXZyan]

I think this idea would be a good idea! I hope something like this will be featured!

[MasterBigAb]

I hope so as well and considering the trailer, I guess we can hope for politics being implemented one way or another at least

[Princeps]

Yes, I agree that laws and internal politics in general should be in.

But, not just for the Romans.

other factions, usually monarchies, would be able to summon "councils" in which the different factions within your realm, like merchants, aristocrats, peasants, military, and so forth would make their petitions, voice opposition to laws they don't like and endorse laws that they do. So you could choose from a myriad of laws, see their benefits (some might provide more manpower, others more revenue) and who supports or opposes them.

For example, if you are tempted to pass a "land reform" bill to distribute land more evenly and weaken the aristocrats, the peasant faction could, depending on the severity of the problem, enthusiastically support this. The aristocrats would oppose, even violently. Merchants would be mostly indifferent. The military might object, slightly, with the argument that they'd lose elite cavalry that only large land owners can support.

Other laws might include: citizenship-for-sale, enslavement punishment for crimes, professional military focus, militia focus, tax laws, trade laws, anti-piracy laws, anti-brigandry laws, inheritance laws and perhaps moral laws like ban on prostitution, etc etc. They'd all have different bonuses and penalties economically, militarily and different support/opposition. A badly mismanaged legislation could lead to civil war.

.....

Roman law-making would work differently. Perhaps, if you're just one Roman faction rather than the entire republic, you would control "votes" i.e. the amount of senators loyal to you. You could convince more senators to follow you by bribing them, through marriage alliance, supporting their careers in some way, etc. Then, you can instruct your senators to introduce and vote for legislation that you like. For example, if you want more support among the plebs, just pass a land reform bill. If you feel you need more money, just pass a trade bill to please the merchants. If you feel the gods look down upon you, endorse a ban on immoral behavior like prostitution. If you need more soldiers in your conquest of Asia minor, endorse an enhanced recruitment bill or extension of citizenship to additional cities, which would allow you to tap into additional manpower.

With a good legislative career and military glory, you could climb to emperor-hood.

[West3634]

i really like the idea that more romans could die pre-reform, as weird as ive worded it they were essentially a militia. RTW hasnt really shown this too much. Even with mods such as Roma Surrectum i rarely lose any units

[Philippus]

Yes Rome needed laws, as well as the game will require political systems for different cultures.

[-Joker-]

Great idea, would really add alot more depth to the game

[MasterBigAb]

I am indeed really confident we will also see it in some kind implemented, the more detailed the better, but even a rather simple use of laws would be fine already and add a lot to the feeling imo.

[Rorarii]

I am indeed really confident we will also see it in some kind implemented, the more detailed the better, but even a rather simple use of laws would be fine already and add a lot to the feeling imo.

Agree, you don't have to go into too much detail (need to be a lawyer), just something simple, to give players a 'taste' of changing your society through law changes.

MBA, you have more influence with CA than me, i know you're only a forum moderator but hopefully you could pass this idea onto jack or another CA member. thanks!

R

[MasterBigAb]

Agree, you don't have to go into too much detail (need to be a lawyer), just something simple, to give players a 'taste' of changing your society through law changes.

MBA, you have more influence with CA than me, i know you're only a forum moderator but hopefully you could pass this idea onto jack or another CA member. thanks!

R

Well Jack is very active here, saw him reading and checking quite a few threads, let's just hope he or they will read this.
Only because I am moderating here does not make my voice in such regards more important or causing greater impact or so...

And yeah I am pretty confident if they read it and like it and have not yet included/thought about it...they will certainly consider it.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

(4) Full time professional army (During the Republic the army was a militia, only paid when on campaign, during the marian reforms (i think??) the army became fully professional (??). Pass this law and armies become better but more expensive)

They didn't get better, but it was a huge increase of the available manpower although at a higher monetary cost.

[The excited one]

personally i think its a good idea but what about the Hellenistic states of the east then? if only those implemented it only makes the game roman "focused" which i m afraid will lead to despite CA promise to spend more "money" on it. Will the money be used on research? or just focusing on graphics which comes from general consumer base but lack of historical accuracy

[Rorarii]

personally i think its a good idea but what about the Hellenistic states of the east then? if only those implemented it only makes the game roman "focused" which i m afraid will lead to despite CA promise to spend more "money" on it. Will the money be used on research? or just focusing on graphics which comes from general consumer base but lack of historical accuracy

If CA SEGA don't milk this era to the max with greek and other releases then, or even mods, then i'll join the priesthood .... priest of MARS!

R

[The excited one]

i don't expect them to do it i mean it will be time consuming and it means more expenses which leads to later release and ultimately leads to less $$$ earlier

[iKossu]

I agree. This reminds me of Civilization IV with its civics and United Nations wonder.

[Rorarii]

Bump ... Rome needs laws otherwise it isn't Rome ..

PAtricans make up laws (religious) as they go along, plebs demand laws written down -
12 tablets
Debtors laws
marriage laws
Citizenship laws
etc

R