My View of Religion Articulated...

[Da Skinna]

...but not by me, by Voltaire.

I researched Francois Marie-Alouet, or Voltaire, after always seeing these little quotes like about God being a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh and common sense isn't so common (though he actually didn't say that, it's just attributed to him). I find a lot of philosophical things I sometimes wonder about is very well articulated by him. I particularly love this one from his Philosophical Dictionnaire (...?) about God, of all characters.

DURING the reign of Arcadius, Logomacos, lecturer in theology of Constantinople, went to Scythia and halted at the foot of the Caucasus, in the fertile plains of Zephirim, on the frontier of Colchis. That good old man Dondindac was in his great lower hall, between his sheepfold and his vast barn; he was kneeling with his wife, his five sons and five daughters, his kindred and his servants, and after a light meal they were all singing God's praises. " What do you there, idolator? " said Logomacos to him.

" I am not an idolator," answered Dondindac.

" You must be an idolator," said Logomacos, " seeing that you are not Greek. Tell me, what was that you were singing in your barbarous Scythian jargon? "

" All tongues are equal in the ears of God," answered the Scythian. " We were singing His praises."

" That's very extraordinary," returned the theologian. " A Scythian family who pray God without having been taught by us! " He soon engaged Dondindac the Scythian in conversation, for he knew a little Scythian, and the other a little Greek. The following conversation was found in a manuscript preserved in the library of Constantinople.

LOGOMACOS:

Let us see if you know your catechism. Why do you pray God?

DONDINDAC:

Because it is right to worship the Supreme Being from whom we hold everything.

LOGOMACOS:

Not bad for a barbarian! And what do you ask of him?

DONDINDAC :

I thank Him for the benefits I enjoy, and even for the ills with which he tries me; but I take good care not to ask Him for anything; He knows better than us what we need, and besides, I am afraid to ask Him for good weather when my neighbour is asking for rain.

LOCOMACOS:

Ah! I thought he was going to say something silly. Let us start again farther back. Barbarian, who has told you there is a God?

DONDINDAC:

The whole of nature.

LOGOMACOS:

That does not suffice. What idea have you of God?

DONDINDAC:

The idea of my creator, of my master, who will reward me if I do good, and who will punish me if I do ill.

LOGOMACOS :

Trash, nonsense all that! Let us come to essentials. Is God infinite secundum quid, or in essence?

DONDINDAC:

I don't understand you.

LOGOMACOS:

Brutish fool ! Is God in one place, beyond all places, or in all places?

DONDINDAC:

I have no idea . . . just as you please.

LOGOMACOS:

Dolt ! Is it possible for what has been not to have been, and can a stick not have two ends? Does He see the future as future or as present? how does He draw the being out of non-existence, and how annihilate the being?

DONDINDAC:

I have never examined these things.

LOGOMACOS:

What a blockhead! Come, one must humble oneself, see things in proportion. Tell me, my friend, do you think that matter can be eternal?

DONDINDAC:

What does it matter to me whether it exists from all eternity or not? I do not exist from all eternity. God is always my master; He has given me the notion of justice, I must follow it; I do not want to be a philosopher, I want to be a man.

LOGOMACOS:

These blockheads are troublesome. Let us go step by step. What is God?

DONDINDAC:

My sovereign, my judge, my father.

LOGOMACOS:

That's not what I'm asking you. What is His nature?

DONDINDAC:

To be potent and good.

LOGOMACOS:

But, is He corporeal or spiritual?

DONDINDAC:

How should I know?

LOGOMACOS:

What! you don't know what a spirit is?

DONDINDAC:

Not in the least: of what use would it be to me? should I be more lust? should I be a better husband, a better father, a better master, a better citizen ?

LOGOMACOS:

It is absolutely essential you should learn what a spirit is. It is, it is, it is . . . I will tell you another time.

DONDINDAC:

I'm very much afraid that you may tell me less what it is than what it is not. Allow me to put a question to you in my turn. I once saw one of your temples; why do you depict God with a long beard?

LOGOMACOS :

That's a very difficult question which needs preliminary instruction.

DONDINDAC:

Before receiving your instruction, I must tell you what happened to me one day. I had just built a closet at the end of my garden; I heard a mole arguing with a cockchafer. " That's a fine building," Said the mole. " It must have been a very powerful mole who did that piece of work." " You're joking," said the cockchafer. " It was a cock-chafer bubbling over with genius who is the architect of this building." From that time I resolved never to argue.

If you don't understand why I love this, then I guess someone else can explain it, or I will in a later post. I love this piece, because it's just so...mmmmm, right?
And happy Canada Day!

[Tostig]

The last paragraph was a little odd. Further internet research informed me that a cockchafer was a type of large beetle that damages vegitation, so I guess that the point is that God is merely an explanation for great things, and made in the image of each society.

[Da Skinna]

Yeah, the last part is a little weird, I had no clue what a cockchafer was either....

But I got a much different interpretation of it, and I think that was what Voltaire meant with this. The Scythian has a 'humble' view of God, not thinking of Him as the Greeks would, but with a more simple view that God gifts humans as well as tests them, the Scythian never questions that. The Greek can't understand, because the Scythian's God is a simple one, and his one is much more complex, so the Greek curses him as barbarian, who doesn't understand God. But the Scythian has learned, as we saw in that last paragraph, that he doesn't want to argue the meaning of God and His intentions, learning it just causes conflict when His origins are disputed.

He believes in a Supreme God that doesn't need all that fancy background info but to be someone who can guide us in our lives. I believe God to be a being that we can have faith in, whether He exists or not I'll bother to dispute, nor dispute where He came from. In the end, we all have to find a way to get along, and arguing religion can only escalate as we've seen so many times in the past and nowadays.

[Tostig]

Ah yes, an interesting view. I myself would say that the Scythian's view is no nobler - to be willing to have one's understanding limited by ignorance is not a good thing to me. None the less I find myself agreeing with your assessment of the Scythian's view. What I differ on is your assertion as to Voltaire's meaning of the passage.
One only has to look upon wikipedia to find a greater understanding of his views and opinions than this passage alone provides, for instance in his Épître à l'Auteur du Livre des Trois Imposteurs (November 10, 1770) Voltaire said perhaps his most famous quote, "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer." In my opinion this underlines the passage - that all men create the idea of God as a coping mechanism.

The one quote that I feel underlines your view that he prefers one type of religion over another comes from his "Prayers," Questions sur l'Encyclopédie" published slightly later, between 1770-74:

In a word, we only pray to God because we have made him in our image. We treat him like a pasha, like a sultan whom one may provoke or appease.

Although both the Scythian and the Greek have wildly contrasting ideas of what God is, they both need him for precisely the same reason - to provide them with some idea of comfort and protection, or failing that justice.

To take it one stage further however, why do I disagree with your view that the Scythian was right not to question that which I do not know? To answer this I will use a poster from the failed 1968 revolution:

The words are "Stay young and shut up." in French. Essentially it is a statement by the French students that they were fed up of not being allowed to question, and not being allowed to think, openly and freely. To me this is what religion is - a fundamental statement of "This is God. He is x. He will make everything OK." There can be no questioning, no progress, and no room for reasoned discussion. Why? Because in my view religion boils down to nothing more than emotivist expressions about empirically improvable facts. All religion is a case of believing what the man with the biggest club tells you.

[RusskiSoldat]

Wait, the Byzantine is being a pompous ass and the Scythian is being an ignorant moron?
Which one of those do you strive to be?

[Silver Guard]

So, if God did not exist, we would have to invent him, yes, i see how that underlines the point clearly. However, the Scythian does have a different need for God. Unlike the Greek, who questions the essence of God, needing more then just fulfillment, the Scythian is content with the knowledge that God answers everything, the Greek needs proof for even God's form, thus needing a being perhaps even higher then God to answer God's existence. Such a man could not be fulfilled as he would search for the existence for that being aswell. In this way Voltaire is showing how the simple man is content with the God which needs no further explaination, whereas the philosopher must always ponder something which cannot be answered, such is the point. For God is an answer for all things inexplainable, as shown by "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer.", if God himself needed explaination then he would be neccissarily the opposite of his own nature

Damnit, I've just formulated a Theist argument

[Da Skinna]

Well, I like silver guard's assessment in the Scythian is happy to just accept God and not to question so much, because remember: Not everyone wants to know everything, if they are happy, they are happy.

The Greek and other philosophers and the like try to find everything possible about God, and if they cannot find it, they make it up, usually in their own likeness because that is all they know.
The Scythian's need for God is a simple one, and if he is content with leading a good life and not pondering what God wears on friday nights, then good for him. He is still living quite nobly, quite justly, and no one is hurt, right?

Tostig: I also think it's smart and in everyone's best interest to ask questions, but doesn't disputing different answers lead to some very bad results, like the inter-religion violence and wars. The Scythian in the end says he had made the resolve long ago to stop disputing the origins of God, because it can lead to no good, just conflict, which we know is right from history. Not to say that these kind of debates can't be pulled off.

[KingOfTheIsles]

So, it's a long-winded way of saying that "Ignorance is bliss"?

[Da Skinna]

I wouldn't say that, it's more of choosing not to dispute the origins, I would think mostly with other people because it leads to conflict.

And seriously, if religion guides us, gives us something to believe in, then why do we need all that other info with it, that narrows down Our God to something very specific, when the Bible tells us that we cannot know Him. And anyways, if religion is specific, then obviously there will be people disputing, debating, and later fighting over the specific origins of life and God, which we know is true, conflict has happened over religion. Or has it...? It has.

[the Eternal Cocoon]

the scythian knew all that he needed, which is to say all that he wanted to know, about his god. Namely, what the purpose of god is, and what is his purpose in relation to god. Knowing when god exists, or the state of matter, or other such things, is inconsequential to everyone but philosophers. The Scythian said he didnt want to be a philosopher, but a "man". He said earlier in the text that all he wanted to do is be observant of god and his wishes. So by man he meant someone who belives and is faithful in god. So, to achieve what he wanted, the scythian had all the knoledge he needed. The philosopher on the other hand, doesn't. he knows what a spirit is, but not why he should know what a spirit is. When he was asked about his god, he couldnt answer. The scythian answered all the questions about his god that were asked ( I consider identifying what isnt important to know a answer, and a supreme show of intellect at that). In other words, the scythian is in no means ignorant, he simply dosent have the time to consider things unimportant to him, just like the philosopher probobly dosent know much about irigation techniques, fighting, and in my opinion, faith.

also, about the last paragraph, I think it was supposed to mean that two people can interpret the same thing in diffrent ways, and both are equally right. More so, that their interpretaions are usally self gratyfing. The reason the scythian decided nnever to argue is becuase he realized that two opposing views usally describe the same thing in diffrent words, or rather the same thing described by diffrent people.

[Da Skinna]

I got a similar interpretation to that, but figured something else. Also, very nice, articulate response Eternal Cocoon. I figured that there is no use in arguing the origins, and that it can only escalate from there. But again, I'm only looking at history to derive that...

[LoZz]

you people sure do like your "god" debates dont you.

[Rhinosaur]

I thought it meant that the Scythian was the wisest one. "Because it is right to worship the Supreme Being from whom we hold everything." Is the best answer to any of these questions. Even Irishman's thread about the philosophy of Baruch Spinoza (or Einstein, even though he didn't invent it) calls for a reverance towards creation. Those are purely good things.