modding campaign map

[MathiasOfAthens]

Good luck guys but for s sake can people just start small. Get a smaller map working before you try to make a completely new map. At least see if you can change a region border and make it run in game.

[ScottishClansmen]

hello all map enthusiasts. i personally am not a huge fan of shogun 2 but i do won it and i also am very excited at the news of all this work especially Spartans propositions. i do have one objection though. no matter what game, ETW, NTW, S2TW, RTW2, or future titles, we have to think of what parts of the world are relevant. northern Russia, no offense, is not populated and doesn't really matter, even for the sake of napoleon, Moscow is not in the center of Russia, it is closer to Europe, anyway i have a model of what the map should include using the ETW theater system.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ScottishClansmen]

sorry for the huge image but anyway that is what i feel the map should fucos on because those were the most important areas of our world until very recently when everything is accesible and relevant

[Erwin Rommel]

No. Initial map modding should start with something more feasible. Again, I reiterate. Still use the old vanilla map, however try carving new regions instead of the 60, like divide the Hatakeyama. Or 2 more regions in Musashi.

[Kruppe the Magnificent]

On the note of theaters, there does seem to be a layer in the map file used for delineating theaters, I'm guessing its something built into the engine that just wasnt utilized in shogun?

I haven't tried playing with it yet tho, suffering a lack of time, and focusing on other aspects at the moment.

Starting small is wise, but I believe there is a lot more to gain from first figuring out what all kinds of maps we can import to 3dsmax, if u can import a pre-made real world map with high detail into 3dsmax you have cut out a large amount of work.

Also, I'm extremely skeptical that the shogun map was made entirely in 3dsmax, does anyone know for sure what else was used by CA in map production??

I'm assuming photoshop, but there are a couple autodesk programs that would be possibilities also... Anyone have more info on this?

[MathiasOfAthens]

No. Initial map modding should start with something more feasible. Again, I reiterate. Still use the old vanilla map, however try carving new regions instead of the 60, like divide the Hatakeyama. Or 2 more regions in Musashi.

Exactly.

[Kruppe the Magnificent]

To clarify, I'm not saying don't start small, Rommel is very right in it being the best approach. There is still a lot for us to learn about the various layers, about the process used, etc.

But I don't see the benefit in discouraging those who are thinking larger, their experiences and information will help all of us in the long run, like in figuring out what all we can import as base maps, learning from the issues they encounter in trying to create the necesary layers from scratch, etc.

[ScottishClansmen]

of course i know this will start small i was simply suggesting a final project as opposed to Spartans original ideas, concept images

[MathiasOfAthens]

Yes but its like trying to climb Everest when you have not scaled any other mountain in your life.

[GeneralWolfe]

No. Initial map modding should start with something more feasible. Again, I reiterate. Still use the old vanilla map, however try carving new regions instead of the 60, like divide the Hatakeyama. Or 2 more regions in Musashi.

Agreed that he should start small.

But i think you should try to create one region on a small island like Ireland or Iceland because it might be easier than having to change all the pathfinding from the Shogun map to slit off those regions.

[spartan_warrior]

I have no intention of trying to implement a large map at once, right now I am just building the model and info needed make a workable map. Once I get the structure done, I plan on cutting a small section out of the map (probably Sicily or Ireland) and building a map from that. Since the tools have come out I have been examining the data needed to make a map, and in theory its not too hard... the basic structure is not all that dissimilar to the maps of RTW and M2TW; except that the map is mostly model based now, vector data rather than raster data of the previous engine.

It just seems like building a new map is impossible, we are so accustomed to the maps of warscape being unmoddable because we didn't have access or understanding of the data structure; but now we do. CA has even said that everything needed to make a new map is there now, just that it takes a large amount of type and effort. And as I have discovered it will take an immense amount of time, even with using GIS data.. I can't imagine what it would be like without this data.

[Kruppe the Magnificent]

That is an excellent idea wolfe, adding a small non-sensical island offshore of honshu would make for an easier starting point, once you learn the system used in the map move on to edits of japan itself (im very excited to see someone divide hatakeyamas territories to create a more realistic hatakeyama).

I think i may have to run with that wolfe... Onogoro Island, here i come

P.S.- Has anyone compiled a list of the layers in the map and what the function/contents of each of those layers?

-Kruppe

[Col. Tartleton]

I think the last thing people want to do is mod "Shogun" even if by necessity that's the first thing they need to do.

I think given tools, people want to make an expanded and better Empire Total War.

Afterall, Shogun is basically geared for Dark Age - Gilded Age warfare and I think most people will agree that what's already been done for Shogun is a fairly good Japanese warfare simulator.

[Hannarr]

I'd Love to see Rage of the Dark Gods and Third age total war redone in S2TW.

[Col. Tartleton]

Or Total War: World At War



Nothing scarier than SS Kavallerie Dragoons. Slightly more effective than Polish Uhlan with a pointed stick, but I wouldn't want to run into either party.

The US had 14 million horses available for service although we never used them in Europe (a few horses were used for logistics in Asia). Alternate history FTW.

[Toasty Fresh]

No. Initial map modding should start with something more feasible. Again, I reiterate. Still use the old vanilla map, however try carving new regions instead of the 60, like divide the Hatakeyama. Or 2 more regions in Musashi.

There is no reason that people shouldn't go nuts with experimentation. In my experience of modding games, you're not going to learn things quickly if you do things slowly and simply. I'll set myself an objective and do everything I can to get there, and I'll learn a heap in a short amount of time if I apply myself.

Please don't discourage people from being ambitious.

[Akaie]

That suggestion was not a point of discouragement; quite the opposite, actually. An aspect of map creation will be dividing a map via regions. Why not use the map we know works to clarify how map creators will go about doing that region division in the map and startpos files?

[Toasty Fresh]

That suggestion was not a point of discouragement; quite the opposite, actually. An aspect of map creation will be dividing a map via regions. Why not use the map we know works to clarify how map creators will go about doing that region division in the map and startpos files?

Using the original map is necessary, but there's no reason you can't try to do more than something as insignificant as dividing up an already existing region.

Sure you can do that to see if you can get it to work, but ideally you should be aiming for a much larger goal than something so insignificant.

[Akaie]

Using the original map is necessary

Aye. Such was my point, rather than a suggestion that we do not look outside a map of Japan .

[Toasty Fresh]

Aye. Such was my point, rather than a suggestion that we do not look outside a map of Japan .

I understand that, but I was mainly responding to Rommel, who seems to think that we should not look outside a map of Japan.