Discovery of SM Higgs-like particle

**Jack04** · July 04, 2012, 03:50 AM

http://twitter.com/#!/cern/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

Now, to get on looking for the really cool stuff.

**Visna** · July 04, 2012, 04:12 AM

the hunt for the Higgs has been compared by some physicists to the Apollo programme that reached the Moon in the 1960s.

No offence to physicists, I <3 u guise, and physics students have awesome parties, but space exploration beats subatomic particles on the sexyness scale.
Very interesting news nonetheless.

**Godfrey I of Leuven** · July 04, 2012, 04:58 AM

Yeah, I just heard about it as well via BadAstronomy.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...2/07/04/higgs/

Though I have to agree with Visna. Space exploration is sexy.

**Mangerman** · July 04, 2012, 08:03 AM

Now if only polticians would see the same

Interesting development.

**Hakomar** · July 04, 2012, 12:34 PM

The conference news was up for a few days and I was thinking of making a thread on it, but you beat me

Very interesting though, a great advance for science.

**Sphere** · July 04, 2012, 03:21 PM

4.9 standard deviations.

That's a middle finger from Jesus right there.

Anyways rumors are there is something unexpected in some of the decays of the observed Higg's which are not in line with the standard model Higg's. Hopefully that leads to new areas of research.

**Kaukas** · July 04, 2012, 03:30 PM

Some fakes news are more exciting than this somehow

. Dunno, when LHC started to operate, people were talking that Higgs will be the key to eqution of everything ,etc. Now it looks like just another addition to messy standard model. Nevertheless, money were well spent.

**Sphere** · July 04, 2012, 07:11 PM

Some fakes news are more exciting than this somehow . Dunno, when LHC started to operate, people were talking that Higgs will be the key to eqution of everything ,etc. Now it looks like just another addition to messy standard model. Nevertheless, money were well spent.

The hype was mostly from the media. In the physics world I heard both Hawking and Weinberg articulate the fear that all the LHC might do is confirm a standard model Higgs. It is actually a very concerning idea, the standard model is far from elegant, and if the LHC does not produce any unexplained observations we may not have a clear path forward in particle physics.

**Timefool** · July 04, 2012, 10:03 PM

I saw it on Fox News and the anchor looked dumbstruck and then told the physicist that people like him with big brains made her small brain hurt.

**Sphere** · July 04, 2012, 10:37 PM

I saw it on Fox News and the anchor looked dumbstruck and then told the physicist that people like him with big brains made her small brain hurt.

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.
- C. Sagan

**Jack04** · July 05, 2012, 02:13 AM

Firstly, even if it is determined that this is "just" the standard-model Higgs, there are yet more questions which are then posited (Hierarchy problem). Secondly, I have heard talk that this discovered particle doesn't behave quite as expected, so it might not be exactly the SM Higgs after all. Thirdly, the LHC was never intended just to look for the Higgs, that was merely the flagship. Now we get to look for the really exciting stuff, like extra dimensions and super-symmetry.

Also, just something worth considering (assuming this is the Higgs). This particle was predicted by "us" (as a species) based on nothing more than a working theory (quantum mechanics) and our love of symmetries. From those few ingredients we have been (apparently) able to predict the existence of a field/particle for which there was no other substantial evidence. Is it just me who finds that utterly astounding? Yes, perhaps the space program was more sexy, but theoretically, it was a piece of

compared to this.

**Morbius Sire** · July 05, 2012, 09:58 AM

Interesting, While I am have basic understanding of the situation: the thing I'd like to see is what effect will this have on non-scientific groups? (especially with great media coverage)

Originally Posted by Sphere

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.
- C. Sagan

To be fair, is there an actual way to make science actually easier to understand? especially higher level scientific fields?

**Kaukas** · July 05, 2012, 01:21 PM

To be fair, is there an actual way to make science actually easier to understand? especially higher level scientific fields?

There is no way, because new concepts of science are too difficult to understand even for scientists themselves and only machines can handle them. It is like drawing 4-dimentional figure on blackboard.

**Phier** · July 05, 2012, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kaukas

There is no way, because new concepts of science are too difficult to understand even for scientists themselves and only machines can handle them. It is like drawing 4-dimentional figure on blackboard.

I'm going to say bullocks on that one. You don't need to grok a idea to at least understand it at a basic level and understand its implications. Now admittedly some people won't have the intelligence, but many more could at least grasp enough for this basic understanding.

Who to blame is many, but the main blame just goes on people and their lack of curiosity.

**Kaukas** · July 05, 2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Phier

I'm going to say bullocks on that one. You don't need to grok a idea to at least understand it at a basic level and understand its implications. Now admittedly some people won't have the intelligence, but many more could at least grasp enough for this basic understanding.

Who to blame is many, but the main blame just goes on people and their lack of curiosity.

Yeah I remember, teachers were fountains of curiosity when I was learning advanced calculus...

**Timefool** · July 05, 2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sarry

To be fair, is there an actual way to make science actually easier to understand? especially higher level scientific fields?

Some scientists like Neil DeGrasse Tyson use metaphors when they explain stuff. If you ever watch shows or interviews that he is in, you will see he has a metaphor for almost everything he talks about.

**Morbius Sire** · July 05, 2012, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Timefool

Some scientists like Neil DeGrasse Tyson use metaphors when they explain stuff. If you ever watch shows or interviews that he is in, you will see he has a metaphor for almost everything he talks about.

Then that depends on the person explaining it, not the actual science.
I've had experience with teachers who made complex material easier to understand, and others who made the simplest of stuff much more complicated.

**mrmouth** · July 06, 2012, 11:35 PM

Best explanation so far:

Think of it a little like this: by smashing things hard enough, a little bit of the Higgs field got chipped off into a boson that could be measured before decaying. Sort of like throwing a rock really hard at a concrete wall -- eventually part of the wall will chip off. In this case, it was like a wall that only threw off a little bit of dust in response to a major collision, and then scientists were able to tell that the wall was there because they took a picture of the dust before it blew away. Except in this case the wall is also continuous and infinite, and invisible, and we all live inside of it, and it's what gives us mass, which is to say the quality of physical existence.

Which kind of explains why some have called the Higgs boson the God particle.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...ors_picks=true

I had my hallelujah moment after reading that. But it still helps to read the rest of the article to 'understand' the Higgs field and the Higgs mechanism.

**Trax** · July 05, 2012, 05:04 PM

I don't think it's possible to truly understand some advanced concepts, they are just too alien and all we have is some deceptive metaphors and analogies.