Spies or Siege?

[Zopharr]

In one campaign, I went crazy with my Spies and Assassins, but this time around I've set a personal rule of using no spies to open gates, because I was skipping the siege aspect completely and it got too easy...

Pros of heavy spy/assassin use: Easy, siegeless access to any and every settlement; Easy pickings of any enemy agent you dont want around with high skilled assassins; Allows faster takeovers of settlements by not needing to carry siege in armies-- can take a settlement from half a mile away with all cavalry without needing to wait the turn to create anything.

Cons: Tremendous dread generated on all of your generals through recruitment and use of both. Getting chivalrous generals becomes infinitely harder. Instant at-war when failing, which is especially annoying on the 95% chances. Alcoholic trait acquisition from making taverns with non-Islamic factions. Sieges become excessively easy, with the ability to position your army at 2-3 doors while the enemy guards one (Yes, this is a con to me)


So which do you prefer? I think I'm actually enjoying the game far more now that I've restricted myself from using them, even though taking settlements went from a 5 minute average to triple that.

[templar54]

It comes down to personal choice, and of course sometimes you have to minimize casulties to be able to hold the settlement so you dont really have a choice, but most of the time personally I like going with normal sieges and all dread thingy tends to get annoying so limitng spies and assassins is the way for me.

[tudor93]

I use them only in my own cities to catch foreign spies; but that's all, I play chivalrous and I don't want any of my generals to have dread traits. When I play an Islamic faction I also train a few assassins in a single settlement to get the hashashim (or whatever) guild that gives me the ability to train those awesome swordsmen.
I also have a question: the Sisha den (spelling ? ) line doesn't give my generals bad traits like the Taverns do for Catholic factions ?

[Zopharr]

I use them only in my own cities to catch foreign spies; but that's all, I play chivalrous and I don't want any of my generals to have dread traits. When I play an Islamic faction I also train a few assassins in a single settlement to get the hashashim (or whatever) guild that gives me the ability to train those awesome swordsmen.
I also have a question: the Sisha den (spelling ? ) line doesn't give my generals bad traits like the Taverns do for Catholic factions ?

AFAIK, no. Reading the description, apparently in Islam alcohol is forbidden, so the Shisha bar was actually a tobacco smoking den and coffee house. I've made plenty of shisha bars in my new campaign and have yet to see a negative trait on any of my generals from them.

[tudor93]

I noticed that generals stationed in settlements with a Shisha bar (or others alike, from the same building line) get the 'speaker' , 'great speaker' etc. traits which give morale or public order (IIRC) ; I thought there are also negative traits, I think I will construct a shisha bar in every settlement

[Paragon]

Spy an assasin use. Down with regular siege battles, chilvary, heavy casualities, etc.

[Lucian Venatus]

one time in Rome Total War, I created an army of spies, I conquered 4 settlements in one turn with the same general... that general went on to conquer most of Europe (Ptolemaic, most of Selucid territories, Carthage/Carthagianian controlled Numidia, Iberia, Thrace, Germania, Britannia, Ireland "in that order") with his army of spies, his name was Talos (like the god Talos from the Elder Scrolls) the only provinces left were the most eastern ones, but I'm sure by the time of his death all would have been his... he was awesome. I never did get to finish that campaign though, something happened to the save file.

[Duck of Death]

I am a spy in the house of love.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

I am a spy in the house of love.

I know the dream, that you're dreaming of...

Back on topic: Spies and especially assassins are great, but you just have to know your limits, if you want to stay as a ''good'' faction in the eyes of the AI, 3 assassins/spies each are probably enough to deal with those annoying generals, heretics, witches, merchants who you're old dried up merchant cant take out, much less get to, princesses who are too beautiful/ugly to be allowed to marry ... and then you realize that you've went too far You gotta try and keep assassination/infiltration to a minimum to keep your king pious and chivalrous and your faction with a reliable reputation, i mostly use spies to reveal more map and give me intel on the enemies movements towards me, rarely use them to infiltrate and open the gates for me, IIRC they also lowered the public order once inside, and with an assassin blowing up things like taverns and other buildings that increase the public order at the same time you could make a city revolt i think.

Assassins can be tricky to train up, but once you get them at 6+ skill they can take down any average general that you dont want to deal with on the battlefield, so they are great, but i have used them too much at times, and it ends with my reputation destroyed and forces me to start assassinating even more to get rid of hard to win battles, cusades coming my way etc., or let my king die, stop the assassinations, and let his chivalrous heir take over to save my from the Pope and his wrath

[AGaming]

It all depends on the situation at hand. I plan my invasions carefully, so it can depend on how badly I need the settlement.