Imperialism vs Globalization

[The Unknown General]

Are they two different things, one is a modern form, or are they both the same thing? We all now how globalization is Americanizing/Westernizing the world and how we exploit Chinese people through sweat shops for cheap products and maximum profit. Not only does America have a lot of political and economical influence, but we also have millitary influencal due to all the bases we have around the world. So what do you guys think?

[Enemy of the State]

One happens through brute force while the other happens through voluntary trade.

Sweatshops exploiting the poor... Oh give me a break. Utter economic ignorance.

[dogukan]

The heritage imperialism never aboslihed itself anyways. Since 1950s, the approach to the "developing world" has changed but the main functioning is pretty similar.

One happens through brute force while the other happens through voluntary trade.

Sweatshops exploiting the poor... Oh give me a break. Utter economic ignorance.

yeah but the point is results...its not due to evil plans, it's both due to conseuquences of the requirements of the system.

[The Unknown General]

How is it exploiting them, if they get low wages and have unsafe working conditions?

[Enemy of the State]

Because the workers themselves consider it the better than the alternatives. All trade is mutually beneficial, because people only trade when they value what they're getting over what they're giving. Conditions in the developing world are steadily getting better, and that is because of western investment and the jobs "sweatshops" provide.

[The Unknown General]

Because the workers themselves consider it the better than the alternatives. All trade is mutually beneficial, because people only trade when they value what they're getting over what they're giving. Conditions in the developing world are steadily getting better, and that is because of western investment and the jobs "sweatshops" provide.

Why I do say what you said and what that video said, made me open my eyes. Capitalism is obviously the best system in the world! Sure people are poor now, but if they believe really really really really hard in the Merican dream they can be rich too. If not they can eat cake and serve the wealthy for low wages and no benefits amrite?

[Enemy of the State]

Why I do say what you said and what that video said, made me open my eyes. Capitalism is obviously the best system in the world! Sure people are poor now, but if they believe really really really really hard in the Merican dream they can be rich too. If not they can eat cake and serve the wealthy for low wages and no benefits amrite?

Alright fine, the west totally severs trade with the developing world. Are they better off? Are we better off?

[The Unknown General]

Alright fine, the west totally severs trade with the developing world. Are they better off? Are we better off?

I'm not saying trade is bad, but the fact we outsource jobs overseas, exploiting people to make products and other services for a cheap price, while Mericans here dont have jobs because there being sent over seas. Also that video was so painfully propaganda I gagged.

[Dr. Croccer]

How is it exploiting them, if they get low wages and have unsafe working conditions?

Mainly because they would continue to exist anyway. If child labour wasn't legal the children wouldn't all be suddenly going to school and stuff, they'd still be poor. Their families would still depend on their work, and would either become further impoverished or let their children work illegally, in conditions even worse than what they would do in legal factories, and it'd all be hidden from the world. Moreover, the children can learn a profession that can guarantee them a future income.

Is the current situation good? No, as much as some in this thread want to pretend not, it's still in a sorry state with a lot of flaws, but the alternatives are worse. You can't write laws and pretend that a society that clearly isn't ready for them will become like ours overnight.

[The Unknown General]

Mainly because they would continue to exist anyway. If child labour wasn't legal the children wouldn't all be suddenly going to school and stuff, they'd still be poor. Their families would still depend on their work, and would either become further impoverished or let their children work illegally, in conditions even worse than what they would do in legal factories, and it'd all be hidden from the world. Moreover, the children can learn a profession that can guarantee them a future income.

Is the current situation good? No, as much as some in this thread want to pretend not, it's still in a sorry state with a lot of flaws, but the alternatives are worse. You can't write laws and pretend that a society that clearly isn't ready for them will become like ours overnight.

I meant how isnt it exploiting them, seeing how I've been arguing agaisnt sweat shops.

[DaVinci]

Mainly because they would continue to exist anyway. If child labour wasn't legal the children wouldn't all be suddenly going to school and stuff, they'd still be poor. Their families would still depend on their work, and would either become further impoverished or let their children work illegally, in conditions even worse than what they would do in legal factories, and it'd all be hidden from the world. Moreover, the children can learn a profession that can guarantee them a future income.

Is the current situation good? No, as much as some in this thread want to pretend not, it's still in a sorry state with a lot of flaws, but the alternatives are worse. You can't write laws and pretend that a society that clearly isn't ready for them will become like ours overnight.

Sorry, but this is nothing but a lame observation and statement about the matter.

[Himster]

The chinese exploit themselves, just as we exploited our working class in the first half of the 20th century, this arrangement benefits china as much as the west.
Globalisation is a double edged sword, however it's distinction from imperialism is the force used, globalisation is achieved through economic sanction, trade, communication and other media, imperialism is acheived with guns.

Which is america advancing? Both, but they're very careful not to profit from armed struggle, so we can stil consider them (to a certain degree) as the good guys, or at least they can consider themselves as the good guys.

[The Unknown General]

The chinese exploit themselves, just as we exploited our working class in the first half of the 20th century, this arrangement benefits china as much as the west.
Globalisation is a double edged sword, however it's distinction from imperialism is the force used, globalisation is achieved through economic sanction, trade, communication and other media, imperialism is acheived with guns.

Which is america advancing? Both, but they're very careful not to profit from armed struggle, so we can stil consider them (to a certain degree) as the good guys, or at least they can consider themselves as the good guys.

I'd say the bad guys since we've been playing a big part in world government quoting a fellow user on this site "The CIA has been planning and executing Coups since World War 2 in Africa, South and Central America, Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East. torture is nothing new for the CIA.. it has been an integral part of the process since the outset." I mean we do like to have pro Merica or at least pro western leaders in other countries.

[Thorn777]

Yes all is somehow voluntarely in this unfree world full of force.

Dont you ever get sick of your mindbend? Join sanity.

[Diamat]

Do you think workers in the third world don't want western companies to outsource?

Have you ever even heard of comparative advantage? It makes sense for countries to specialize in what they're best at. With free trade we get a global division of labor, which means more wealth for everybody.

Yes all is somehow voluntarely in this unfree world full of force.

Dont you ever get sick of your mindbend? Join sanity.

Well, to be fair, there are mutual benefits for the countries involved. Whether or not it is voluntary becomes more of a philosophical question. It is indeed a system designed to maximize comparative advantage. China, for example, is thus able to make its products cheap and competitive by giving their workers low wages, work longer hours, and get less safety. Add to this an extreme division of labor on the micro scale, then pretty much any worker, regardless of skills, can perform the job, thus making it a very low-paying job. This is how you maximize surplus value. This is exploitation at its finest. Nevertheless, while this system takes away, it also creates. For us privileged Westerners, it creates cheap products. For the Chinese, it creates a trade advantage and a rapidly growing economy.

Don't be fooled, however. This system will not last forever. It is not a static entity, but a continuously shifting phenomenon. Economies are not static entities existing externally to humans, but they are made up of people. For example, maybe, as the Chinese get richer, their people would eventually demand better working conditions and higher wages, in addition to other rights. This would seriously hurt their comparative advantage. Based on this extrapolation, we can see that changes will happen, in one way or another.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Imperialism carries political and social domination of one nation over the other.

Globalization is a world-wide process that can't be stopped and has started since the 1500's. In that sense, Imperialism was one of the particular forms of the globalization process that has not stopped and won't stop unless there's a global collapse(pandemic, nuclear war or alien invasion).

[Condottiere 40K]

Expansion is a natural tendency; whether it's a chicken and egg thing, you could say that globalization evolved from imperialism, because the means of communication and control are now swifter and can be more subtle.

But in the case for the PRC/USA relationship, it's more of a symbiotic one, that though mutually beneficial, in the long run, the Chinese will gain more with the opportunities that are opened by investment and technology exchange.

[SLN445]

Hmmm... Geuss rather then trying to close Sweatshops, one should be trying to bring said countries economies up to a level of standard were sweatships are no longer able to function?

[Derpy Hooves]

The reason why these sweatshops exist is because you have some sort of competition going on for the countries. Some countries are, no offense, are stuck up and don't want their workers to have to work in those conditions. While other countries are willing to let companies do roughly whatever they want to the workers as long as they're off the street. Just generalizing it a bit.
NOTE: I kinda made this sound more brutal than I intended

[Thorn777]

China is a nice posterboy, but there is also places like Mexico or Indonesia. In indonesia unions started to make to many "demands", and in Mexico the few flashy sweatshops cant make up for the cheap grain and wheat imports, destroying the means of living for millions.

China, just has allot of leverage domestically and internationally so it can set a somewhat sensible policy to its benefit and with that benefits the population, but to act as if this is somehow about mutual beneficial deals between voluntary acting individuals etc is....