An Observation on the Campaign

[GeorgeL]

I'm currently 15 years (or 60 turns if you prefer it that way) into my first campaign on Shogun 2 on normal difficulty, and hold around 10 provinces as the Mori. In the early game I was slightly concerned by the amount of "Clan Destroyed" messages which kept popping up, and sure enough by this point, its only myself, the Shimazu, the Chosokabe, the Ikko Ikki, the Date and the Uesugi that are still alive. We are all roughly equal size. Now I understand that there is a need for the AI to expand and develop into a threat for the player, but I can't help but feel like this is slightly too aggressive for my liking. I've developed quite quickly for my playing style, and still I'm not going to have a chance to interact with 80% of the clans in the game as they're already destroyed. I was just wondering whether I've been unlucky in this game, or whether the AI is meant to be this aggressively expansionist, even at lower difficulty levels? The whole map just seems a bit...barren for my liking, I guess. It felt a lot more lively in the first few years, when I was encountering diverse clans and engaging in diplomacy with them etc. Now I've only got 8 or so clans left on the diplomacy screen...

Also, on a side note, I'm currently waging religious warfare on the Christian Shimazu (whilst blockading them on Kyushu) and a couple of their provinces are occupied by Buddhist rebels. It seems strange to me that this doesn't mean the province gradually becomes Buddhist again, and the Christian influence wanes. I was hoping that this would be a useful precursor to me invading the island, but no, they are stuck at 100% Christianity. Seems a little silly, and is potentially something CA could look at in a patch?

[Stellarnight]

In Vanilla, some of the major clans often get gobbled up early due to their weak starting position. (For example, either the Oda or the Tokugawa bites the dust early) The Takeda, Hojo and Imagawa usually builds up an Alliance and then they will proceed to eat up everyone around them. I would recommend DarthMod as a modification to the core game as Darthmod bolsters the strength of the garrison and prevent too much clans from getting destroyed early in the game. I even have the Honma(the Island Clan with the gold mine) conquering the northern half of Japan!

Or you could try out the Sekigahara Campaign Modification! The clans in the mod are based on the actual divide between Ishida Mitsunari and Tokugawa Ieyasu and the Clans in my observation last alot longer because most of them are tied by alliances and allegiance and thus they are less likely to go on a rampage of killing everybody in sight.

Do you have the Ikko Ikki DLC? They are a interesting wildcard that either get vanquished early or grow to a terrible size.

For the Christianity issue, what you could do it to perhaps go ahead and take one of the provinces in a good strategic location with a strong stack. Demolish the Churches and build temples and hold your forces there til the religious dissent is manageable. Leap and move forward. The good thing about Rebel Provinces is that the AI is rather adverse to attacking them and thus they form a sort of buffer for you.

[GeorgeL]

In Vanilla, some of the major clans often get gobbled up early due to their weak starting position. (For example, either the Oda or the Tokugawa bites the dust early) The Takeda, Hojo and Imagawa usually builds up an Alliance and then they will proceed to eat up everyone around them. I would recommend DarthMod as a modification to the core game as Darthmod bolsters the strength of the garrison and prevent too much clans from getting destroyed early in the game. I even have the Honma(the Island Clan with the gold mine) conquering the northern half of Japan!

Or you could try out the Sekigahara Campaign Modification! The clans in the mod are based on the actual divide between Ishida Mitsunari and Tokugawa Ieyasu and the Clans in my observation last alot longer because most of them are tied by alliances and allegiance and thus they are less likely to go on a rampage of killing everybody in sight.

Do you have the Ikko Ikki DLC? They are a interesting wildcard that either get vanquished early or grow to a terrible size.

For the Christianity issue, what you could do it to perhaps go ahead and take one of the provinces in a good strategic location with a strong stack. Demolish the Churches and build temples and hold your forces there til the religious dissent is manageable. Leap and move forward. The good thing about Rebel Provinces is that the AI is rather adverse to attacking them and thus they form a sort of buffer for you.

I might well have a look at Darthmod then, though from my initial perusals, it seems to change quite a lot and I'm looking to enjoy a mainly vanilla game for a few campaigns. I don't have the Ikko Ikki DLC but they are in my game and have indeed grown to a fearsome size with around 15 or so provinces i think, and are dominating the area around Kyoto. But me and my Chosokabe allies are gradually rolling eastwards.

Funnily enough, the Honma are still alive in my campaign. They are somehow holding out against the Date and the Uesugi, who both own around 10-15 provinces!

A lot of Daimyos consult Mikos and decide early on that the Tokugawas have got to go; however, I suspect that they thrive as a vassel, and if left unsupervised, expand on their own.

If you want to turtle after an initial period of expansion, play Shimazu.

I've tried vassaling clans when I take lands off the Ikko Ikki, but these clans obviously start out with only one province and always get attacked by someone. Even my faithful, long-term ally, the Chosokabe, attack them without fail. They don't seem to realise that's not really on....

[Condottiere 40K]

A lot of Daimyos consult Mikos and decide early on that the Tokugawas have got to go; however, I suspect that they thrive as a vassel, and if left unsupervised, expand on their own.

If you want to turtle after an initial period of expansion, play Shimazu.

[The Hedge Knight]

Not blowing my own trumpet but you may like my mod here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=440700

I put a huge amount of effort into making major clans particularly survive longer (and more randomly) along with making sure it has probably the best balanced armies of any mod without changing stats or giving clans buffs.

[GeorgeL]

I had a look thanks, and have a couple of questions. Just out of curiosity, how have you specifically made the major clans survive longer? Also, I see you've tweaked the realm divide aspect, is your mod still compatible with http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082 mod? And finally, is it save-game compatible, or do I have to start a new game to see the changes?

[The Hedge Knight]

I haven't touched realm divide actually, people didn't like that so it got removed. So yes it should be compatible with the realm divide mod.

As for making them last longer I took it down to an individual level of the aggressiveness and build policies of each clan and its neighbours along with a lot of other things which other mods really don't do.

[GeorgeL]

I haven't touched realm divide actually, people didn't like that so it got removed. So yes it should be compatible with the realm divide mod.

As for making them last longer I took it down to an individual level of the aggressiveness and build policies of each clan and its neighbours along with a lot of other things which other mods really don't do.

Ok, that sounds like exactly what I want. As above, would it require a new campaign for the changes to take effect or is it save-game compatible?

[The Hedge Knight]

I would start a new game, otherwise most clans will be dead anyway and the managers won't change for a while (saved in the startpos). It won't crash though and will change things with a save.

[windsupernova]

I like it, I'd rather face a superpower than several small clans lategame. I think they expand at a good rate.

[zhiphius]

I'm currently 15 years (or 60 turns if you prefer it that way) into my first campaign on Shogun 2 on normal difficulty, and hold around 10 provinces as the Mori. In the early game I was slightly concerned by the amount of "Clan Destroyed" messages which kept popping up, and sure enough by this point, its only myself, the Shimazu, the Chosokabe, the Ikko Ikki, the Date and the Uesugi that are still alive. We are all roughly equal size. Now I understand that there is a need for the AI to expand and develop into a threat for the player, but I can't help but feel like this is slightly too aggressive for my liking. I've developed quite quickly for my playing style, and still I'm not going to have a chance to interact with 80% of the clans in the game as they're already destroyed. I was just wondering whether I've been unlucky in this game, or whether the AI is meant to be this aggressively expansionist, even at lower difficulty levels? The whole map just seems a bit...barren for my liking, I guess. It felt a lot more lively in the first few years, when I was encountering diverse clans and engaging in diplomacy with them etc. Now I've only got 8 or so clans left on the diplomacy screen...

Also, on a side note, I'm currently waging religious warfare on the Christian Shimazu (whilst blockading them on Kyushu) and a couple of their provinces are occupied by Buddhist rebels. It seems strange to me that this doesn't mean the province gradually becomes Buddhist again, and the Christian influence wanes. I was hoping that this would be a useful precursor to me invading the island, but no, they are stuck at 100% Christianity. Seems a little silly, and is potentially something CA could look at in a patch?

This, to me, happens entirely randomly. Sometimes a handful of clans grow really powerful, other times its status quo for ages with tons of clans alive.

I've had uesugi controlling everything but 3 provinces east of shikoku/kyushu (tokugawa had those 3) by 1560-1565 after i quickly swallowed up kyushu/shikoku as shimazu and was finishing the last provincial and army upgrades.

another campaign had one of the shikoku clans ressurect 10 times in 1 campaign and chosokabe turn christian without touching kyushu.

and in another i saw oda grow huge, only to implode to ressurected clans and rebels, returning the balance of power to equal with no clans holding more than 3 provinces.


No campaign is unique (you may stumble across similar campaigns) in my experience (my experience note, i dont speak for others) and you might've just stumbled across one of those "1 clan goes berserk" campaigns as i call them. sometimes they come frequently, sometimes not.

you could download mods in an attempt to change this. People already suggested a few.

There's a "civil unrest" mod that lowers the bonus the AI gets toward invader resistance f.ex. (they have 0 invader resistance unmodded). THere's 2 AI mods tweaking the AI to build different mixed armies, changes their construction priority and helps them garrison cities better instead of going "Gung ho!"

In my oppinion the randomness of the campaigns is a strength rather than a weakness for the game, i like it random, unexpected. I dislike predictability (aka mods that make sure huge clans dominate and such).

Either way, if you want to make use of mods, try the suggested ones. But read up on the mods so you're sure you get the ones changing what you want.

[DeMolay]

I agree with Zhiphius that the civil unrest mod is critical if you really don't like AI clans steamrolling the map too early , as if large provinces were villages , i would also advise the Radious garrison mod that makes provinces not fall so easily unless a reasonably large army tries to invade it , it also makes smaller clans survive longer as they can now actually hold their own against a larger army behind their walls , i found it's important for players who are not looking to complete the campaign objectives but just having fun developing only a few regions then make vassals and pick their wars far from their capital or simply turtle and defend /roleplay in higher difficulty settings

Fall of the samurai is a big improvement in that regard , you can play some factions with just 2-3 well developed rich regions and still have tons of cash to have at least 2 full stacks and a strong navy and the overall tempo of the game is slower and more enjoyable , you have complex regional situations far more often in mid-game and provinces do not fall as easily as in the standard shogun due to increased garrisons and more effective ranged troops to guard the castles