What is suffering?

[Greek Firethrower]

I heard the question: Why allowed God the suffering?
That's the reason why I thought about the question "What is suffering?".
It is only a invention of the humans?
Who defined suffering?

[Amorphos]

Well there is a pain gene, without it we’d suffer far less ~ mostly emotional trauma.
There are a few cases where that gene isn’t present in someone, a lady was as a girl sat on a radiator waiting for a relative to come and she unknowingly suffered terrible burns to her legs.

Seems like pain at least was a gift [and is subjective anyway].

If god had stopped suffering we’d be less human. Not to mention that it is not just humans, most life-forms suffer pain, its one of the major evolutionary features without which humans would never had appeared.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Suffering is when the internet connection gets lost.

[Lazarus]

Suffering is essential. As Quetzalcoatl said, there are people who are born without the gene to suffer. One of those people accidentally chewed through her own tongue because she couldn't feel the pain. A man made what was just a broken leg many many times worse because he kept walking on it.

You need to suffer. The reason I don't headbutt the wall until my brain becomes liquid is that I've headbutted things that are harder than my head before - it hurts like hell. I really don't want to experience that pain again, so I'm not going to go ahead and headbutt that wall. Now, what about emotional suffering? Probably operates the same way really. You just have less control over whether the bad thing happens again or not.

[alexanderswift]

I have a memory as a child my dad had cut his had while cutting a bun or something and I said something along the lines of wouldn't it be great if there wasn't pain, and of course he said well it's a mixed blessing since if there wasn't any pain I would have kept cutting.

Suffering physically and mentally is necessary. Physically for protection, mentally to grow as a person.

[Greek Firethrower]

Thankyou for answering

[Vizsla]

Pain and suffering are two distinct concepts. That is why the phrase ‘pain and suffering’ is not a tautology.
Pain is a kind of suffering in the same way that potatoes are a vegetable, but not all vegetables are potatoes.
Pain is a physical sensation with a known cause.
Suffering is a mental affliction.
Sometimes we use the word pain in another sense to mean mental anguish because we are imprecise in our use of words.

And if God exists then he allowed suffering either because he is not nice or because he is not all-powerful. Choose between the two or choose to deceive yourselves with specious arguments. I really don’t care.

[MightyBlock]

And "God" doesn't exist... You can all start hating on me now. I'm an atheist and I'm proud of it.

[Kjertesvein]

Nietzsche defined suffering as something good/neciseary for a thing to be 'beutiful'. Think of the pot-plant metaphore. In it's starting phase the roots, dirt and insects are not attractive or usefull. However, once the plant has grown, through hardship over time, it blossom into a magnificent flower or a useful tomato.

The same with the genealogy of morals. The jews (the seed) who destroyed morality as the greeks knew it. Non the less, Jesus arrived (the stilk) and christianity grew into the hard ascetic orthodox man (the tomato). An alternative, for Nietzsche, to the Ubermensch.

~Wille

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Suffering is essential. As Quetzalcoatl said, there are people who are born without the gene to suffer. One of those people accidentally chewed through her own tongue because she couldn't feel the pain. A man made what was just a broken leg many many times worse because he kept walking on it.

You need to suffer. The reason I don't headbutt the wall until my brain becomes liquid is that I've headbutted things that are harder than my head before - it hurts like hell. I really don't want to experience that pain again, so I'm not going to go ahead and headbutt that wall. Now, what about emotional suffering? Probably operates the same way really. You just have less control over whether the bad thing happens again or not.

you're talking about the sensation of pain. Suffering is much different. Why do I grieve so badly when my father is dying in the late stages of huntington's disease? Why does it pain me so much to read a story about some child who was murdered for no reason in a genocide? This is a scientific as well as philosophical question, why is that an evolutionary stable strategy? Is it because if I feel so bad at them I can take steps to prevent them happening again, and by extension, save myself from that fate?

I also find it interesting that suicide rates plummet in times of crisis like war and plague. Why are people so eager to commit suicide the better the situation is for them to reproduce? There's something about humans that loves working hard to make things better, but when they can't get any better, their life falls apart. I mean I'm sure some time in the distant future when the only resources we need are mass an energy that we can turn into anything we like at the push of a button (and by extention raise the dead), the suicide rate will be absolutely tremendous.

The only situation I can imagine suicide being an ESS is to save the lives of children or other relatives. Why is it six-seven times more common than murder then?

[Elfdude]

Suffering quite obviously is stress on the attachments to anything one cares about. If I care about my computer it could indeed be torture to watch you slowly dismantle it. Similarly if I care about food it causes suffering not to have it. It is in these unsatisfied, frustrated or strained wants, desires and attachments that suffering arises. From this perspective we explain all types of suffering in an objective way about a rather subjective concept.

Betters question are how to prevent it? Whether it should be prevented?

Ireland, part of what you're describing is depression which isn't really suffering as the normal person describes it. Basically in most cases your brain just gets in the habit of being sad, this can be triggered or worsened by suffering but is different in that there's no reset to normal. Depression is much easier to fall into when you don't have any purpose but also when you have more time to think about what desires, attachments or wants aren't being fulfilled. Hence stability can breed depression. Fighting also triggers a stronger sense of community which means depressed individuals are more likely to get support. During times of plenty these individuals can even be ostracized and ignored etc etc.

[SparksNow]

I heard the question: Why allowed God the suffering?
That's the reason why I thought about the question "What is suffering?".
It is only a invention of the humans?
Who defined suffering?

Suffering goes into your bones and veins and into your marrow. If eats you up... and spits you out...
I can't referre to your theistic questions...
Suffering spits you out to suicide or something far better... or crap or sheit... your option I guess.

Nietzsche defined suffering as something good/neciseary for a thing to be 'beutiful'. Think of the pot-plant metaphore. In it's starting phase the roots, dirt and insects are not attractive or usefull. However, once the plant has grown, through hardship over time, it blossom into a magnificent flower or a useful tomato.

The same with the genealogy of morals. The jews (the seed) who destroyed morality as the greeks knew it. Non the less, Jesus arrived (the stilk) and christianity grew into the hard ascetic orthodox man (the tomato). An alternative, for Nietzsche, to the Ubermensch.

~Wille

Have you more quotes? Nietzsche? Any own ideas?

[Himster]

Who defined suffering?

Suffering is defined by comfort: being the two sides of the same coin.

[Hobbes]

Suffering is defined by comfort: being the two sides of the same coin.

Would abandoning comfort lead to end of suffering? Would occasional, self inflicted discomfort make us appreciate comfort more when we have it? Would it also minimze suffering?

[Himster]

Would abandoning comfort lead to end of suffering?

Not necessarily, it would simply shift the scale of experience. The sensation of comfort can be found in anything if experienced in the right context: sunshine on a rainy day, a breeze on a hot day. It's life and cannot be truly abandoned.

Even the prime example of someone who is de-comforted: Sisyphus, even he felt something when Orpheus confronted Hades about Eurydices with a song.

Would occasional, self inflicted discomfort make us appreciate comfort more when we have it?

It could, suffering is subjective: "One man's garbage is another man's treasure".
In my view the extremes of human sensation are often dependent on a lack of expectation: a good surprise birthday present imparts a greater sensation than an expected present, like-wise expected suffering has a lesser impact than unexpected suffering.

Of course this is experienced subjectively, the human condition is incredibly malleable and can be conditioned through will, suffering is primarily in the mind, you can convince your mind that "this" is suffering or "that" is suffering or comfort with enough will-power.

Would it also minimze suffering?

If one is minimized it follows the other is also minimized by context.

[Hobbes]

In my view the extremes of human sensation are often dependent on a lack of expectation

Then we can agree that what the Stoics propose can be beneficial: He robs present ills of their power who has perceived their coming beforehand (Seneca the Younger). And since suffering is subjective it follows that joy is subjective as well, thus the only way anyone can be joyous and free of misery is through himself.

[SparksNow]

Then we can agree that what the Stoics propose can be beneficial: He robs present ills of their power who has perceived their coming beforehand (Seneca the Younger). And since suffering is subjective it follows that joy is subjective as well, thus the only way anyone can be joyous and free of misery is through himself.

A statement to be framed for everyone - and to view and live by (imho).

[Morkonan]

Suffering is the subornation of one's individual will.

[Kjertesvein]

Have you more quotes? Nietzsche? Any own ideas?

Here specifically is Nietzsche's view on suffering:

Nietzsche and Nihilism Lecture 2 - Suffering and the Meaning of Life

In this second lecture of the series on 'Nietzsche and Nihilism' we will explain why it is human beings need there to be a meaning of life, the connection between the need for meaning and suffering, and why traditionally this meaning has been posited to exist in another reality.

I also give you the whole introduction to the ideas of Nietzsche.

I'm at work now, so will get back to ideas other then work later.

~Wille

[truth1337]

I heard the question: Why allowed God the suffering?
That's the reason why I thought about the question "What is suffering?".
It is only a invention of the humans?
Who defined suffering?

If we are to apply science, suffering is a feeling your genes have given you the ability to feel in order to signal that something is wrong in your life and that you need to take action (whether that be an actual action or deliberate passiveness) against the problem. One interesting aspect of this, is that most things you feel suffering over, you have power to fix - otherwise nobody with that feeling for that type of context would have survived to bring you that instinct today, in your generation! This of course has exceptions, e.g. when nerve impulses tell you you have pain in the foot because you hit something, that was useful for your survival, but the very same nerves that were given to help you take action against that small pain, will make you hurt like **** if a lion bites that foot off and in that case you probably can't do anything about the situation...

Even so, it is good to remember that the suffering is MOST OF THE TIME there, from thousands of years of evolution, because your ancestors had benefit from knowing something was wrong and were driven into taking action against that problem - and that too is a call for YOU to take action against your suffering, wherever or whenever it may arise!