Will this work with total war?

[verena xeventus]

Please, for the love of all things, tell me that the following system will run all of the total war games (especially Napoleon, Empire and Shogun 2) without crashing!
The new system is going to cost one hell of a lot of money and I want to make sure its worth it. I refuse to have another AMD/ATI card due to terrible graphics drivers, poor performance, lack of support and constant crashes. AMD simply are not worth my patience any longer.

see below:

Processor
Intel Core I7-3820 X 4 Core @ 3.6GHZ stock speed
Memory
8 GB (4x2 GB) 2133 MHZ DDR3 Quad channel
Video Card
2 GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GTX 680
OS
Windows 7 64 bit home premium
PSU
875 W
HDD
1TB SATA 6gbs (7200rpm) 32MB Cache
SOUND CARD
Sound blaster XFI Titanium
_______________________________

Please advise.

Thank you in advance.

[Vimes]

Nobody at all can guarantee that any system, no matter how well specified, will not crash a game or any other application.

Since you list your spec with no other information I am not sure why you are going down the route of a x79 build as opposed to a Z77 with a IB or SB CPU, which would be cheaper...?

The GTX 680 is a phenomenal card but the GTX670 is quite a bit cheaper and does performs very well. I have just added a Asus GTX 670 to my system and it seems to run the games I play at 1080p without issue and enough eye candy for my liking.

Not sure why you would want a dedicated sound card over that of the onboard audio chip, which are very good.

Also I have now bought a 256GB SSD drive just for my Steam folder. Games do load much quicker and can also access the drive faster and thus has helped when playing certain games.

Good luck and enjoy your build.

FWIW - I avoided a 7950 due to potential issues with the AMD cards over that of the NVidia ones. I also had other reasons in doing that but I'm very happy with the Asus card that I did buy.

[irishron]

Maybe for a game that has multicore support but too nice foe any TotalWar game until they institute multicore support.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

better off with Z77 and Sandy Bridge or Z77 and Ivy Bridge

motherboard is cheaper CPU price similar, less power hungry, and is a cheaper alternative, if you dont plan to overclock then Ivy Bridge is the best bet, i could spec a build but if you can't built it it wont help much.

[Totalheadache]

Please, for the love of all things, tell me that the following system will run all of the total war games (especially Napoleon, Empire and Shogun 2) without crashing!
The new system is going to cost one hell of a lot of money and I want to make sure its worth it. I refuse to have another AMD/ATI card due to terrible graphics drivers, poor performance, lack of support and constant crashes. AMD simply are not worth my patience any longer.

see below:

Processor
Intel Core I7-3820 X 4 Core @ 3.6GHZ stock speed
Memory
8 GB (4x2 GB) 2133 MHZ DDR3 Quad channel
Video Card
2 GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GTX 680
OS
Windows 7 64 bit home premium
PSU
875 W
HDD
1TB SATA 6gbs (7200rpm) 32MB Cache
SOUND CARD
Sound blaster XFI Titanium
_______________________________

Please advise.

Thank you in advance.

yeah as long as you are single screen can see no issues here. yeah if you can afford it better cpu...

n make sure you oc cpu.

what screen are you planning on using?

p.s and even high-end/xfire rigs can have issues with total wars. (that said you should still be able to max it it out + o _ on a single screen).

[verena xeventus]

hi, sorry for late reply, beeen having lots of problems. I will not be over clocking the CPU as all past experiences with overclocking has made my systems unstable, so this is not an option. Unfortunately, this is the absolute limit of my budget and cannot afford to go for a higher end CPU. All I wish to know is will the system finally be able to play total war?

Will only be using a single screen/monitor, don't really have the need to run on more than one.

Also this is not a build I will be constructing myself, I simply get to choose from a set of available specifications. The chip sets recommended by you guys would have been preferable, but unfortunately the build does not support these options. I have to admit, I would have preferred something a little faster than 3.6 ghz. However, as this system has not yet been purhased I will go have a look at the chips recommended here, so thank you for the information, it may yet come in handy.

Reason for hi-spec sound card is that I don't feel onboard soundcards have all the necessary drivers these days, hopefully a soundblaster card will provide decent driver upgrades and upgrade availability.

**Further Question - Should I choose to go with 16GB 1600mhz RAM or stick with the 8GB 2133mhz RAM?** Which would total war benefit most from?

Simply put, my last two systems fail miserably when running total war games - when they really shouldn't have. Take the one I have now for example, E8400 3 GHZ Core 2 duo, 4 GB ram (not sure I am getting full speed & potential due to motherboard restrictions etc) windows 7 home premium and a crappy AMD 4870 1GB card - which is most certainly not total war friendly.

All responses to my questions are appreciated.

[irishron]

Simply put, my last two systems fail miserably when running total war games - when they really shouldn't have. Take the one I have now for example, E8400 3 GHZ Core 2 duo, 4 GB ram (not sure I am getting full speed & potential due to motherboard restrictions etc) windows 7 home premium and a crappy AMD 4870 1GB card - which is most certainly not total war friendly.

For total War games, I'd take it. The game's fault, not the computer's.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

yea game issue i remember Empire Total War wouldnt even run on the GTX 580 for awhile the driver just gave a black screen its been fixed but the Total War series really is just all over the place

That said for Total war stock system Ivy Bridge will perform better then the CPU your looking at, on Z77, compared to the older sandybridge and sandybridge-e system im seeing a rather large increase in performance,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=542432

your choice

680 damn good gpu choice, altho the 2GB and 4GB 670s are cheaper with the Gigabyte overclocked 2GB model on newegg for $399 beats the stock GTX 680s for $100 less

memory is fine but on Z77 you can grab a cheaper 1866 16GB kit performance is roughly the same going from 1866 to 2133 offers only about 1000 MB/s more memory bandwidth aka 23 GB/s to 24 GB/s in SHogun 2 thats about .5 FPS to 1fps if using the Blood Pack

but regardless your rig looks solid,

only thing i would want more information on is the Power Supply you say 875W well just because it says 875w doesnt mean its a good power supply, brand make and model really do matter when it comes to the PSU its the one part you dont cheap out on when it comes to quality.

[Vimes]

IMO you are intent in going for the more expensive architecture X79 rather than a Z77 build without a particular need and thus spending money on a type of build which costs more money for features you will not use.

I was hoping that you would respond by noting other more intensive hyper-threading type work which would benefit from such a chipset type build but you have not done that.

As for your reasons in buying a separate sound card they are flawed. The driver support for the Realtek audio chips are phenomenally good with very regular driver release. The Via HD chip option, on my Z77 board, is also exceptionally good and has given me absolutely no issues with any game. Remember that the sound chip is built on board and thus there is no harm in using it and many reasons to prefer it. You would save money and it would simply work. In fact there can be more issues with having a sound card and drivers than they can by using the onboard sound chip.

The rig you noted...

Simply put, my last two systems fail miserably when running total war games - when they really shouldn't have. Take the one I have now for example, E8400 3 GHZ Core 2 duo, 4 GB ram (not sure I am getting full speed & potential due to motherboard restrictions etc) windows 7 home premium and a crappy AMD 4870 1GB card - which is most certainly not total war friendly.

...is similar to what I came from...

E8500
4GB RAM
1GB GTX 460
Windows 7x64 HP

I did overclock the E8500 to 4GHz and I would have preferred my GPU to yours, I had a 4870 512mb prior to that. But this is now what I have gone to...

Z77 board
3570k running at 4.5Ghz
12GB DDR3 12800 memory @ 1600mhz
Asus GTX 670 Direct CU II 2GB

...the difference you would think would be great when playing games, I play them at 1080p, well it isn't.

The difference has not been "night and day" but more of an incremental one. Sure Civ V is now quicker between turns and when scrolling a larger map. Shogun II is likewise. Other games allow a little mor eeye candy. But they are only incremental differences and not in themselves enough of a justification to spend what I did to call it value for money. However there were other reasons as to why I changed my PC.

As noted I now have a 256GB SSD just for my Steam games and that does help, somewhat.

Unless you like playing with benchmark speeds you will not benefit at all with the faster RAM. The only reason that I have 12GB is that I did buy 2x4GB sticks of Corsair LP 1.35v memory and fitted that but then I "found" 2x2GB sticks of OCZ 1.35v memory that I had for a couple of years and forgotten all about it and thus I stuck that in as well.

I have noted absolutely no difference in game terms having come from 4GB of DDR2 to 12GB of DDR3. Sure it is nice for working with large raw images in Photoshop but we are talking about games here and in that context nothing has improved.

I still recommend a budget type Z77 board like the Gigabyte Z77 D3H (as this chipset will be the last for the socket 1155 and next year brings Haswell) I would not spend more.
As you do not wish to overclock at all I would then buy a 3570k rather than a SB 2500k.
I would also use the onboard sound and most certainly buy a GTX 670, non reference card - like the Gigabyte Windforce or my Asus one.
8GB of memory would be fine (leaving two slots free).
An SSD would be nice as a boot drive and another for the games. They would offer value for money.

Shogun II has been appallingly coded to take any advantage of a multicore CPU. Anything more than a single core at its very fastest is quite wasted and also damning of the creators considering the time we live in and the complexity of the game. So be wary in thinking that the entire solution lies in just throwing a lot of money into a hyper-threading system and that the TW games will take full advantage because they will not do that.

The system that you propose is a really good one and if you are only able to go for the X79 type build then it will suit you well. Shogun II should play fine but will not use the multi core or hyper-threading you have paid for. There are cheaper options which would be more suited to a gaming rig over the X79 chipset build you have listed. You also note that you will use a single screen and unless that is much over 1080p I see little point in going beyond that of a GTX670.

TLDR version - if you have to go with what you list...

Drop the sound card
8GB of memory will be fine
670 GTX over the 680
Buy a SSD for the boot drive (64GB)
Buy a Samsung Series 830 256GB SSD (for example) for your Steam folder
Have the 1TB mechanical HD you noted for odds and sods etc.


Hope the above helps and the best of luck

[verena xeventus]

yea game issue i remember Empire Total War wouldnt even run on the GTX 580 for awhile the driver just gave a black screen its been fixed but the Total War series really is just all over the place

That said for Total war stock system Ivy Bridge will perform better then the CPU your looking at, on Z77, compared to the older sandybridge and sandybridge-e system im seeing a rather large increase in performance,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=542432

your choice

680 damn good gpu choice, altho the 2GB and 4GB 670s are cheaper with the Gigabyte overclocked 2GB model on newegg for $399 beats the stock GTX 680s for $100 less

memory is fine but on Z77 you can grab a cheaper 1866 16GB kit performance is roughly the same going from 1866 to 2133 offers only about 1000 MB/s more memory bandwidth aka 23 GB/s to 24 GB/s in SHogun 2 thats about .5 FPS to 1fps if using the Blood Pack

but regardless your rig looks solid,

only thing i would want more information on is the Power Supply you say 875W well just because it says 875w doesnt mean its a good power supply, brand make and model really do matter when it comes to the PSU its the one part you dont cheap out on when it comes to quality.

IMO you are intent in going for the more expensive architecture X79 rather than a Z77 build without a particular need and thus spending money on a type of build which costs more money for features you will not use.

I was hoping that you would respond by noting other more intensive hyper-threading type work which would benefit from such a chipset type build but you have not done that.

As for your reasons in buying a separate sound card they are flawed. The driver support for the Realtek audio chips are phenomenally good with very regular driver release. The Via HD chip option, on my Z77 board, is also exceptionally good and has given me absolutely no issues with any game. Remember that the sound chip is built on board and thus there is no harm in using it and many reasons to prefer it. You would save money and it would simply work. In fact there can be more issues with having a sound card and drivers than they can by using the onboard sound chip.

The rig you noted...

...is similar to what I came from...

E8500
4GB RAM
1GB GTX 460
Windows 7x64 HP

I did overclock the E8500 to 4GHz and I would have preferred my GPU to yours, I had a 4870 512mb prior to that. But this is now what I have gone to...

Z77 board
3570k running at 4.5Ghz
12GB DDR3 12800 memory @ 1600mhz
Asus GTX 670 Direct CU II 2GB

...the difference you would think would be great when playing games, I play them at 1080p, well it isn't.

The difference has not been "night and day" but more of an incremental one. Sure Civ V is now quicker between turns and when scrolling a larger map. Shogun II is likewise. Other games allow a little mor eeye candy. But they are only incremental differences and not in themselves enough of a justification to spend what I did to call it value for money. However there were other reasons as to why I changed my PC.

As noted I now have a 256GB SSD just for my Steam games and that does help, somewhat.

Unless you like playing with benchmark speeds you will not benefit at all with the faster RAM. The only reason that I have 12GB is that I did buy 2x4GB sticks of Corsair LP 1.35v memory and fitted that but then I "found" 2x2GB sticks of OCZ 1.35v memory that I had for a couple of years and forgotten all about it and thus I stuck that in as well.

I have noted absolutely no difference in game terms having come from 4GB of DDR2 to 12GB of DDR3. Sure it is nice for working with large raw images in Photoshop but we are talking about games here and in that context nothing has improved.

I still recommend a budget type Z77 board like the Gigabyte Z77 D3H (as this chipset will be the last for the socket 1155 and next year brings Haswell) I would not spend more.
As you do not wish to overclock at all I would then buy a 3570k rather than a SB 2500k.
I would also use the onboard sound and most certainly buy a GTX 670, non reference card - like the Gigabyte Windforce or my Asus one.
8GB of memory would be fine (leaving two slots free).
An SSD would be nice as a boot drive and another for the games. They would offer value for money.

Shogun II has been appallingly coded to take any advantage of a multicore CPU. Anything more than a single core at its very fastest is quite wasted and also damning of the creators considering the time we live in and the complexity of the game. So be wary in thinking that the entire solution lies in just throwing a lot of money into a hyper-threading system and that the TW games will take full advantage because they will not do that.

The system that you propose is a really good one and if you are only able to go for the X79 type build then it will suit you well. Shogun II should play fine but will not use the multi core or hyper-threading you have paid for. There are cheaper options which would be more suited to a gaming rig over the X79 chipset build you have listed. You also note that you will use a single screen and unless that is much over 1080p I see little point in going beyond that of a GTX670.

TLDR version - if you have to go with what you list...

Drop the sound card
8GB of memory will be fine
670 GTX over the 680
Buy a SSD for the boot drive (64GB)
Buy a Samsung Series 830 256GB SSD (for example) for your Steam folder
Have the 1TB mechanical HD you noted for odds and sods etc.


Hope the above helps and the best of luck

Thank you both very much for the advice and information, very much appreciated. I have checked the link posted showing the graph chart for CPU performance with Shogun 2 which I found usefull (more useful than the intel website also I might add).

I will take all the advice and information into consideration. + Rep for all help recieved if you have not already been given +rep for this thread.

With regards to the comment above about being intent on going for the x79 architecture chips, unfortunately, as I said there are only a limited number of options to go with, the chip you reccomended was not available on the system options I am going for, otherwise I would have gone with your advice for sure. I feel it would be fair to inform you that the system manufacturer is alienware (I failed to mention this deliberately due to fear of being critised for going for a very expensive build/company). Unfortunately, the options begin with the chip I mentioned and the only alternatives are factory overclocked chips which are waaaay out of my price league. I apologise for not mentioning this earlier.

I feel I must also explain my actions with regard to an alienware. In the past, I have had custom built PC's to my specification from "reccommended" computer specialists in my area. However, on both occasions, from both companies, I was ripped off, very unhappy with customer service (they didn't really give a toss once the computer had been sold as well as the fact that they took a long time to actually build the systems, and even after they were built, they had to be returned due to faulty hard ware. I had always wanted an alienware PC and promised myself and my girlfreind that next time I purchase a PC it would be an alienware and nothing less.

I would have built one myself, but I lack the know how, and when trying to reconstruct my previous computer (an old P4 2.4GHZ with ATI 1800xt) it may have accidentally gone a tad bit wrong.... not going into detail...

Like I mentioned earlier, AMD cards and drivers are a general fail IMO as far as total war goes and I will not go back to an ATI card, so long as it remains an AMD company.

The PSU, All the detail I was provided with was that it was 875 watt PSU, not sure if it is alienware manufactured. Even so, I am very satisfied with the one in my current computer PSU which cost £90 at the time I bought it and comes with a 10 year guarantee. So I guess if things go wrong I have a decent back up... thats if all the parts still fit the new build.

If it's not too much trouble, may I ask for some more graphical/benchmark information links for the total war series regarding hardware, I always find this stuff interesting.

Thank you again for your reccomendations and help to all involved. You obviously know your stuff!

Kind regards,

Pete.

[Vimes]

You are welcome for the advice, albeit the rep thing is something that I'm not interested in.

Take a look here...

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/555?vs=598

...the above show the differences between a GTX 680 and 670, not a great deal for the cost differences. Yo can select other graphical or CPU benchmarks using the above link to create your own.

When you write...

With regards to the comment above about being intent on going for the x79 architecture chips, unfortunately, as I said there are only a limited number of options to go with, the chip you reccomended was not available on the system options I am going for, otherwise I would have gone with your advice for sure

why is that the case...?
No matter how much I would have wanted an Alienware type system if they could not give me the most suitable one for the job I would move on. Albeit I prefer to build my own I could not accept a PC that is not optimal for what I would want when it is costing me more for something less, if that makes sense.!
Can you provide a link to the model you would be buying and perhaps even mention the country you are living in..?
Don't be shy either, if you don't mind post how much it will be costing with the options you have chosen.
You could even look for a Dell type system if you went for a big box shifter type builder, albeit Dell bought out Alienware a few years ago.

The spec you have chosen is really good but not that optimal for a gaming system and probably more expensive than it needs to be.

[verena xeventus]

Hi there.

First about the rep, you may not be interested, but you still deserve the credit all the same.

Country of residence = UK
Link to system: http://configure.euro.dell.com/dells...=dhs&cs=ukdhs1
That link will hopefully work, should also give you the ability to mess about with the system. As you will notice, options are somewhat restricted. The link also gives you an idea of the price - although a discount on 3 year warranty has been offered (and yes, it is insanely expensive for a warranty). Also, system is based on selection from a few days ago.
About dell buying out alienware, you can certainly tell. Unfortunately, the alienware service years ago when it was just alienware seemed to be easier! I'm not racist in the slightest (infact the job I do forbids racism) but I prefer to speak to people from my own country of origin.
Have already had a look at other dell systems, infact thats what got me looking at alienware again.

Just checked link... doesnt work... I'll post current specs, follow link for further info.... The quote I recieved appears below:

Alienware Aurora ALX Matte Black 875W Chassis 1 £1,296.76 Intel® Core™ i7-3820 (Four Core, 10MB Cache) 3.60GHz 1 English Windows® 7 Home Premium (64 BIT) 1 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GTX 680 1 16384MB (4x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 Quad Channel 1 1TB SATA 6Gb/s (7200RPM) 32MB Cache 1 DVD+/-RW (Read/Write) 24x 1 Sound Blaster® XFi™ Titanium PCIe card 1 No Security/Anti-Virus Protection 1 1 yr Next Day In-Home Hardware Support 1 No Accidental Damage Support 1 UK 250V Power Cord 1 English Documentation 1 D05AMW01 1 1 year Next Business Day Hardware Support included with your PC 1 Alienware Aurora Order 1 Alienware Aurora Resource DVD 1 Alienware Schematic Avatar 1 Alien Schematic (Widescreen) 1 Terra Green 1 Display Not Included 1 Alienware Optical Mouse 1 Alienware Multimedia Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY) 1 Steam® Client and Portal™ Game - Factory Installed 1

Hope this answers your questions.

I would agree with you in that paying more for a system that is not the most suitible for the job is slightly mad on my behalf, but I am prepared to make a few alterations.

In all fairness, the only 2 computer games I play on PC are the total war games and the sims (for my girlfriend - not my type of thing). For all other games I use Xbox and PS3 - cuts out a lot of hassle this way.
The system I have now (as detailed in earlier post), simply doesn't cut it. I found out that my 4 gb RAM at present is only 800mhz which explains a few things. Its a kingston brand which I thought was a deal back when I bought it a few years ago... guess not. My biggest problem is with Empire and Napoleon, which constantly crash on battle map (although not so much since I upgraded to Windows 7 64Bit from Windows vista 32 bit) and I also find that the campaign map is buggy and stutters constantly. Later discovered this was to do with AMD graphics drivers for 4870 and other cards. Strange things is that Shogun 2 runs better than the two previous total war games put together, so I never really got to play them properly.

My GF's sims game is too stuttery aswell and that also crashes frequently. So, in short, thats why I wanted alienware. If the alienware system can't handle total war.... then I give up on the total war series, sick of becoming frustrated everytime it crashes. Also, top whack eye candy would be nice. Not had best graphics options since ME2 TW - Even M2TW Has occasional crashes to contend with.... Just can't win.

Kind regards.

[irishron]

If you want to talk TW and Alienware, talk to Legio.

[verena xeventus]

Hi irishron I will have to PM him later on... Hope he hasnt had problems with alienware :-s

[Crazyeyesreaper]

alienware works but tends to be extremely overpriced for what you get. altho if you can't build it yourself i guess you dont have a whole lot of options, as almost every company will put a $300-600 increase on your PC for their profit margins on high end gaming rigs sometimes even higher.

Not sure if they sell in your region or not

but shop around see what other vendors are available

i know Gateway has their FX line
ACER has their Predator line both are gaming oriented maybe take a look see what they offer price wise since your can't build it yourself.

[Vimes]

I don't think that it is mad to pay for what you are doing it is about making concessions etc when you are not able or willing to modify what you have got yourself. In that sense going to a big box company might be the preferred choice.

My father in law bought his laptop from Dell, a really good spec, after years of me building him a box system as his needs have changed. He paid extra for support and for him and his needs it has been a really good buy. The support so far, and he has made use of it, has been excellent for him.

So you are buying...

Alienware Aurora ALX Matte Black 875W Chassis 1 £1,296.76 Intel® Core™ i7-3820 (Four Core, 10MB Cache) 3.60GHz 1 English Windows® 7 Home Premium (64 BIT) 1 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GTX 680 1 16384MB (4x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 Quad Channel 1 1TB SATA 6Gb/s (7200RPM) 32MB Cache 1 DVD+/-RW (Read/Write) 24x 1 Sound Blaster® XFi™ Titanium PCIe card 1 No Security/Anti-Virus Protection 1 1 yr Next Day In-Home Hardware Support 1 No Accidental Damage Support 1 UK 250V Power Cord 1 English Documentation 1 D05AMW01 1 1 year Next Business Day Hardware Support included with your PC 1 Alienware Aurora Order 1 Alienware Aurora Resource DVD 1 Alienware Schematic Avatar 1 Alien Schematic (Widescreen) 1 Terra Green 1 Display Not Included 1 Alienware Optical Mouse 1 Alienware Multimedia Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY) 1 Steam® Client and Portal™ Game - Factory Installed 1

for £1300.

My father in law added a telephone premium type support to what he bought as he would need that. But that is a very expensive option to add.

From what I was able to see I could not find a 670 GTX option and the SSD addition was a silly price considering you can buy a Samsung Series 830 256GB SSD for around £150.

They quote...

256GB SSD + 1TB SATA 6Gb/s (7200RPM) 32MB Cache [add £441.00 or £22/month1]

Taking into account what you have written and trying to understand your position I will need to temper what I suggest realising you would prefer to buy a full box system with adequate support from a company you know are going to be there for you when you need them.

I have dealt with several component companies for years but not buying a complete system, just parts. So it would be difficult for me to give you links where I have had any experience of their supporting a system.

ebuyer for example...

http://www.ebuyer.com/388866-cyberpo...treme-ecc01119

offers the spec of the above and in many ways could very well be considered better value for money.

Tough call when you need to buy a system AND have a good quality support service as you just end up paying over the odds.



BTW thanks for the credit, I have turned off the rep thing, it is just good to know it has been helpful

[verena xeventus]

Ok, I'm back, sorry for the delay.

First, thank you to all of you who have helped. Appreciate it.

In the end, I couldn't make up my mind, so, to put it bluntly, my girlfriend did this for me! So, good news is that system is ordered and paid for, plus I got a 3 year warranty for a huge discount! yeay....
Bad news is..... Well, I've opened a new thread, and I need your help, as do a few others....