plaza capture

[Valiant Champion]

Why is plaza capture disabled?

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Because in Warhammer, EVERYBODY DIES!!!

[Liberator]

Because in Warhammer, EVERYBODY DIES!!!

Essentially.

I imagine the developers wanted to experiment with this new form of siege, where focusing on completely defeating the enemies stronghold is more vital than simply massing soldiers into its middle.

While yeah, there have been sieges where I won simply because I was able to do some ballsy 'backdooring' and held the plaza off ensuring victory - these never really felt like total wins for me.

So, I gotta say, I do like the new system and it's a lot more realistic to Warhammer lore where they would spare absolutely nobody, especially given the alliances that are forced.

You think Orcs would spare a single human, and vice versa?

'Course not.

Give 'em hell.

[smoesville]

I must say i much prefer it

[Ichon]

It works even better with battle timer off. AI stays up on the walls making battles even more bloody. It was an exploit anyway to just grab control for a couple min and win battle.

If you are concerned on defense that you can run all over map and AI doesn't pursue but sits in plaza I am not sure why to complain. You probably won't win the battle anyway but just want to inflict high losses by getting AI to string out its units so you can hit them in isolation. It's your city... if AI is sitting in plaza unmolested its troops are probably raping the women and drinking all the ale/looting the houses. If you turn battle timer off AI will come for your units but I've never had a battle last more than 30 minutes with battle timer off. Just use the 6x speed until AI starts moving its troops. With timer off the AI definitely behaves differently but mostly in more challenging way. For example with timer on AI almost always charges first thing, with battle timer off AI even with even odds will retreat to a defensible hill and force you to attack.

[Valiant Champion]

I for one am displeased. It makes the game incredibly easy if you don't have the time and resources to play out multi-hour unlimited time battles.

I can hunker down in a corner of the city away from the plaza and hold out against huge odds because the AI still targets the plaza and holds it instead of hunting down my army. If nothing else I can leave the city and evade the enemy until the timer runs out.

I can see how things work out better without the time limit because I am stuck either to wait eternity or else try to take back the city and clear the field. Unfortunately I just don't have the time and there is always the small chance but extremely frustrating one of fighting a multi-hour battle only to have it crash near the end.

I set the ratio back to 1.0 or less to enable the plaza capture?

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Perhaps this one might work

[Valiant Champion]

In Rome I think it was a ratio 1.0 in which case the plaza had to be cleared completely before the timer started. The 0.8 is basic default mtw2 for the plaza.

It would be interesting if the AI would attack the settlement as if it were on an open battlefield. In open field the AI will hunt your units off the field no matter where they go.

Perhaps there is a way to cause the AI to do the same thing on a settlement and ignore the plaza. Of course than the AI may not use its seige equipment properly if it doesnt have an objective to reach.

[Valiant Champion]

in the config ai battle xml there are lines referring to the amount of attacking forces the AI should use to capture the plaza.

What would happen if we minimized or zeroed out these values?

which there is one big question....

Is the battle ai's values and configurations in attacking settlements the same in both third age and call of warhammer?

If so than obviously some adjustments could be made to optimize the AI behaviour in attacking cities with disabled plaza capture.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I'll have to check, but I doubt it. They're most likely different in many ways.

[Valiant Champion]

What does the perimeter value do?

does it affect the priority to sweeping the walls and streets of defenders?

[Valiant Champion]

i might be onto something but too early to tell.

I reduced the maximum assault groups allowed to take plaza to 1

I reduced the termination criteria/ enemy in perimeter to 0.001

My theory is that with less attackers heading to plaza and just staying there, the chance will arise that more will available for fighting the defenders.

also the perimeter value if I guess is a ratio. the lower the number the more the attacker will consider defenders in the perimeter a threat, whilst the higher the number the less concerned they are of the defenders so long as they don't get between them and the plaza.

In third age the termination criteria is set at 2.0. this basically and from my own observations would cause the attacker to head straight for the plaza with little attention paid to the defenders unless they directly attempt to stop them. any value above 1.0 should hypothetically be considered to neuter the value. In third age the attackers will push through defenders to get to the plaza without really stopping to engage.

If this can be tweaked properly we may actually see seige battles where the attackers will constantly engage the defenders until they are dead and ignore the plaza which is no longer a necessary objective to win the battle.

Or I don't have any idea what I am talking about.

[Kahvipannu]

I really do hope your on to something VC, tweaks like that would make huge difference.

[Ichon]

Should be relatively easy to test if its only a couple values. Let us know because while I normally play without battle timer I might be willing to try with it on if AI behavior actually does change. Although I think in field battles I'd still prefer timer off since that is where AI acts the most different.

[Valiant Champion]

I give up.

If you are restricted to using time limits, than the plaza capture needs to be active. The AI has a horrible enough time as it is taking a city in 45 minutes much less make it also have to chase and kill all your soldiers off.


As far as no time limit siege battles, Take away the one thing the programmers instilled in the AI to win a siege (capturing the plaza) and you end up with a army that stands around doing nothing except sit in the plaza while you spend hours trying to lure his troops out of it to take them out piecemeal so you can win a siege that should be impossible to win.

[Ichon]

If I have enough army to win a siege I almost always have enough army to win a field battle. Unless siege etc but I still am confused... So you want AI to win by capturing plazaa because you can't stop yourself from luring AI one by one? But you will be able to stop yourself from exploiting it when you are the sieging army? I guess I have never seen such AI behavior in siege. Usually AI comes after all my army unless plaza capture is on then AI sits in plaza. When its off AI comes after cavalry and even traps cavalry in corners etc.

[Valiant Champion]

If I have enough army to win a siege I almost always have enough army to win a field battle. Unless siege etc but I still am confused... So you want AI to win by capturing plazaa because you can't stop yourself from luring AI one by one? But you will be able to stop yourself from exploiting it when you are the sieging army? I guess I have never seen such AI behavior in siege. Usually AI comes after all my army unless plaza capture is on then AI sits in plaza. When its off AI comes after cavalry and even traps cavalry in corners etc.

I will try a no time limit on my next campaign to rule out whether it causes the ai to go to the plaza. But with the time limit on but with no plaza capture they will still send part of their forces to capture the plaza and in many cases almost all of them.

[Swad]

What I want to know is how to disabled those little general death and fortification destruction cinematics during battle.

[k/t]

COW.cfg or whatever it's called.

event_cutscenes = 1 -> event_cutscenes = 0

[Valiant Champion]

without time limit enemy still captures plaza on large and huge cities and just stays there. Than I can spend a long time whittling away their force peicemeal as I mentioned before.

I always play on very hard on my battles.

I don't see how you can fairly play without the plaza capture enabled. Time limit or not it makes the game more challenging. The AI is hardwired to go for the plaza not the players forces.