any tips for isengard 3.2 vh/vh?

[skullripper]

im looking for some good tips for isengard on vh/vh difficulty. In the beginning there units arent that great and rohan keeps on besieging isengard.rohan and eriador took byrig and duneard and it seems impossible to win. any advice?

[Jaymax]

I'm not a very good player but I think you can call an invasion on Edoras and hope that Rohan will pull back its forces, thus leaving you to deal with Eriador.

[skullripper]

they usually have me surrounded before i can call invasions

[Wizad]

Upgrade the barracks in the Orthanc (the fortress where Saruman is at) on turn 1. It is tempting to upgrade other cities, or build mines or farms in the Orthanc first, but you really need the military infrastructure as Isengard. A higher level barracks gives you like 2/3 extra units to recruit, you need this extra military.

Some people say ally with Rohan. Though it gives you a big advantage when you're build up, I think it removes a lot of the fun.

Try to use a small army to take South-Tharbad and the provinces west of Rohan. Use your biggest army commanded by a high dread general to kill any small Rohan forces southeast of the Orthanc.

When you are ready to fight a full war advance slowly on cities with garrison scripts, advance quickly when there is no garrison script. Remember your infantry forces have the upper hand in cities and wooden castles.

[Philippus]

In mode very hard, in TATW, to AI earn bonus in the campaign?

I think odd the amount of full stacks that AI puts in the campaing.

[Moritol]

I completed a mission to capture Fangorn for the best units currently available; 3 Orthanc guards helped quite a lot to capture the Rohan castle (with garrison script) right below Isengard.
After this step I was able to keep a status quo until the 1st invasion: Edoras . Mordor took it, but Rohan had 2 frontlines now.

For the building part, I went for archery range, then mines, followed by barracks. Just recruit every unit available. Snagas for the cavalry (hold position) and some heavy troops behind them.

By the way, used a RC submod.

[Ben.EEeee]

On VH/VH, first few turns -

1.) get Wormtounge to beeline towards Gondor.
2.) Ally with Gondor, they usually accept if you give them trade rights + map info
3.) Rohan will now declare ceasefire
4.) Ally with Rohan and get trade rights
5.) Now you're free to expand and build in peace. 15+ turns in and I have 40,000 gold because I did not have to build units (but had free ones from quests) and just spent my turns building econ structures.

You no longer have to divert your army between fighting Rohan and expanding westward anymore. When you're ready, amass a huge Uruk army and spill out of the gates!!! YOU WILL TASTE MANFLESH!
Also, don't try to capture Fargorn before you're ready, Treebeard and his Ents are bloody destructive and nigh unstoppable on "Huge" army settings.

Oh btw, there's a bug... the plantir doesn't seem to work for Isengard at all.

[garakga]

.

Oh btw, there's a bug... the plantir doesn't seem to work for Isengard at all.

It works fine for me ^_^

[Garriath]

Honestly, I wouldn't really trust the ceasefire with Rohan. For me, it lasted all of three or four turns before they attacked me again. That said, be sure that you ally with Gondor, the High Elves, and the Silvans. The AI *never* betrays an ally without ending the alliance first, and that does loads for keeping your borders safe and letting you pick your wars.

Against Rohan, your best bet is to take the fight to them. Bear in mind that their cavalry is going to inflict hideous losses on your infantry *unless* you fight them at a bridge. For that reason, always draw the enemy to attack you at rivers. If you keep a stack on the bridge just west of Eastfold, the enemy will be threatened enough not to attack Orthanc.

What you'll want to do with your beginning armies is simply rush the western half of Rohan (i.e., everything west of the Isen river.) I believe it's only three castles, of which I think only one has a (minor) garrison script. If you're able to do this, you're narrowed the fight to essentially a single-front war. Then send half your army to protect your bridge, and the other half to take all the cities west of Isengard until you come head to head with the elves. Naturally, don't attack.

Against Rohan, be prepared for a long, occasionally frustrating campaign. Draw out his main armies at bridges, and then after you've crushed them, grab the cities. The garrison scripts are very annoying, but are manageable. Once you've taken Helm's Deep and Edoras, you'll have badly damaged his capacity to churn out stronger troops than scouts and easy infantry (though do beware dreadstacks.) It's a long fight, but it's actually very doable, and once you have access to your highest tiers, you really get some very interesting, very competent units. It took me about 70 turns to defeat Rohan as Isengard (as opposed to about seven as Rohan against Isengard...), but once you do, you get to mess around with a very new map. Totally up to you whether or not you want to crush Gondor against the Mordor-Harad anvil, burn down the Shire, seal the East's fate by taking down the Silvans, or conquer Middle-Earth's western coasts and expel the Noldor for good. You've a lot of options once Rohan is done, and it's bound to be a very fun, satisfying effort.

[Ben.EEeee]

Honestly, I wouldn't really trust the ceasefire with Rohan. For me, it lasted all of three or four turns before they attacked me again.

Don't ceasefire them, ally with them. I've started a new game and it's turn 46 now, Rohan is still my ally.

[Garriath]

Don't ceasefire them, ally with them. I've started a new game and it's turn 46 now, Rohan is still my ally.

Interesting. I can't help but feel like you're just delaying the inevitable that way, though, and if anything making it worse for yourself. You can expand just fine while at war with Rohan- just hold the bridge east of Westfold and Rohan can't bother you. If you're at peace, though, you're both building up- but the AI's massive cash and growth benefits, plus the fact that he begins with nine or ten settlements, and you begin with three, means that every turn you don't spend defeating his armies is a turn he's getting stronger than you.

Of course, if you prefer it this way, you're welcome to do as you like. I'm curious, actually. See if you can annihilate Rohan by turn 70. If you do it before, I'll concede your strategy's better :-P.

[Ben.EEeee]

but the AI's massive cash and growth benefits, plus the fact that he begins with nine or ten settlements, and you begin with three, means that every turn you don't spend defeating his armies is a turn he's getting stronger than you.

That's not how the AI works, they do not build massive forces if they are not under threat. Most of their armies are script spawned during war anyway so being in war allows them to grind you down. If at peace without threat or intent on attacking, the AI does not build up their armies.

Further, allies CANNOT attack you without sending a diplomat and ending relations first, so just assassinate any diplomats that come your way.

Immediately after allying up I captured rebel held Talsir, Lond Daer and South Tarbad without building new troops, I just used the ones I started with plus the ones given to me from missions.

By turn 28, my cash float was over $50,000 with construction going on in all provinces. Despite having less provinces than Rohan, I constantly get the "Your faction is the richest province" notification.

In the mean time I was securing trade rights with everyone I met and alliances with the Sylvian Elves, High Elves and Free Peoples... this way, once I start my blitzkrieg they won't interfere.

By around turn 50 I had the highest tech barracks ready and was churning out units and burning through my bank.

I attacked Rohan after sending Wormtounge to break off diplomatic relations around turn 61, where I had 3.5 stacks of good quality troops. Gondor broke their alliance with me but SE, HE and Free Peoples remained my ally.

It's turn 64 now, and Rohan has lost their entire Western region to 2 armies and spies. Foldburg and Hornburg had fallen to me within 3 turns and I still have about 3 armies to march forward with.

In another turn I'll be sieging Entwade and Edoras while their armies are scattered and broken. My plan is to cordon them into Fangorn and turn them into my vassal within 20 turns.

[Holy Harry]

Ware the stacks of dread.

[Garriath]

That's not how the AI works, they do not build massive forces if they are not under threat. Most of their armies are script spawned during war anyway so being in war allows them to grind you down. If at peace without threat or intent on attacking, the AI does not build up their armies.

The difference is that the AI develops its settlements much faster than you, so if you have a high level barracks by turn 50, you can be sure that they have several. This, coupled with the fact that they have more (and larger) cities than you means that, even if they don't build up their army during peace, once they're at war they're able build very challenging, problematic troops. Conversely, if you attack them early on and take Hornburg and Edoras, they're restricted to fighting you with militia troops and scouts, outside of their dreadstacks, which makes taking territory much easier earlier than later.

Further, allies CANNOT attack you without sending a diplomat and ending relations first, so just assassinate any diplomats that come your way.

In the mean time I was securing trade rights with everyone I met and alliances with the Sylvian Elves, High Elves and Free Peoples... this way, once I start my blitzkrieg they won't interfere.

You're totally right, and it's a very good strategy.

Immediately after allying up I captured rebel held Talsir, Lond Daer and South Tarbad without building new troops, I just used the ones I started with plus the ones given to me from missions.

By turn 28, my cash float was over $50,000 with construction going on in all provinces. Despite having less provinces than Rohan, I constantly get the "Your faction is the richest province" notification.

As for territory, it's pretty easy to take all the settlements you mentioned while still at war with Rohan. As for your cash, sure, it's nice to have, but you'd be getting even more if you'd taken west Rohan in the first few turns. Also, I never try to compete economically with the AI. The fact that they have unlimited money basically means that you're going to lose unless you take their territory from them, regardless of how much money you have.

I attacked Rohan after sending Wormtounge to break off diplomatic relations around turn 61, where I had 3.5 stacks of good quality troops. Gondor broke their alliance with me but SE, HE and Free Peoples remained my ally.

Another idea would be to just break your alliance for Rohan and wait for their inevitable attack. Once they do, Gondor stays your ally, but if they don't attack you either way, it probably doesn't matter much what happens.

It's turn 64 now, and Rohan has lost their entire Western region to 2 armies and spies. Foldburg and Hornburg had fallen to me within 3 turns and I still have about 3 armies to march forward with.

In another turn I'll be sieging Entwade and Edoras while their armies are scattered and broken. My plan is to cordon them into Fangorn and turn them into my vassal within 20 turns.

Thing is, west Rohan is easily takeable in Isengard's first dozen turns. If you want, you can peace them after that, and you'll benefit from having three new settlements as well as a much smaller front.

Still, congrats on a successful campaign against Rohan. It clearly seems to have worked. Personally, I'd still advise newcomers to stay on the offensive from the beginning, but it seems like turtling has results too.