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  1. #1

    Default New Political System

    Enjoying the mod enormously. Just an idea, but is there any possibility of altering the political system [the loyalty of particular regions to particular factions] so that individual factions become more a collection of allied nations rather than a tight nation state? RTW doesn't do alliances properly so a substitute needs to be found, at least where the "alliance" is very much a dependent relationship. Conversely the faction system, because its so tight, doesn't reflect the very marginal relationship certain regions had with the core of their faction. If it can be done I think it would be more realistic, more challenging for the player and work better within the limits of the game engine. It would also eliminate the need for counter-factions, of which there can only be a few.

    What I'm thinking here is for example the triggering of the Roman rebels faction. Instead of that, how about the affected regions simply become part of Carthage? Only native South Italic troops would be spawned and recruited of course, but it would more accurately reflect the political balance of the rebellion, give Carthage a major foothold in Italy and work better in the sense that an AI Carthage would try to rescue its own city of Capua rather than leaving it to die, which is what happens in the game because its an allied city.

    This idea could be applied elsewhere. In North Africa for example Numidian regions could change side to Roman [from Rebel, Free Barbarian or Carthage] if triggered by certain events, such as a Roman army of a certain size landing, Carthage losing a battle, happiness ever falling below 75 etc. Conversely if a particular region has a high level government building imposed on it and another faction is next to it, it could change sides, in Gaul for example as party of the contest for control between the various Celtic factions. Or for example where Rome takes a Dacian region and a Dacian army of a certain size appears in that region, then if the Romans don't have an army of a certain size in the settlement then the region immediately flips back to Dacia.

    What i'm getting at is that in every historical situation there is a core series of regions to a faction then a periphery which is marginal. The different grades of government building have reflected that but they don't really go far enough in depicting the fragility of the relationship between core and periphery and the fact that the risk is not just them going independent but changing sides altogether. Seleucia for example should be ripe for sudden changes of loyalty to other factions based on a broad range of events, not conquest as such. The change in loyalty in Syracuse is probably best dealt with as a simple contest between Rome and Carthage rather than the creation of a Syracuse faction.

    Ideally the whole map should be littered with regions that go backwards and forwards between factions, particularly those a long way away from the centre, primitive regions or those that had a high level of development in the past and a history being a power themselves. My question is, is any of this possible?

  2. #2
    Decanus
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    Default Re: New Political System

    I don't think it's possible in RTW to script the transfer of regions from one faction to another.

  3. #3

    Default Re: New Political System

    It is possible....we use it in the initial rebellion at the start of the Roman campaign.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  4. #4

    Default Re: New Political System

    But is it possible to litter the map with inherently disloyal regions that will suddenly go over to an invader without being bribed by a diplomat? What I'm thinking here is something designed to benefit the AI in particular, given that the AI doesn't coordinate its diplomatic offensive with its invasions.

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Political System

    It's possible to make it so that when settlements rebel they go to a specific faction by default.

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Political System

    How exactly? And can you make specific regions more likely to rebel, eg by happiness falling below 100, or when their specific faction arrives in the region, eg Tarentum goes Greek [their default faction after rebellion] if a Greek City States army lands in its region.

  7. #7

    Default Re: New Political System

    From a gameplay point of view I can see that being very frustrating, as I plan carefully and invest a lot of resources into making my client states happy. With the exception of Carthage being given some of the Italian regions in the beginning, which seems to make some sense.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Political System

    Ever had a girlfriend that you've given everything to but she still gives you a kick in the nethers? Ok, neither have I but I've heard of it happening.

    The point it's more an extension of the rebellions than anything, where the region, instead of the getting all Braveheart about it, instead decides to go with another, more familiar, less tax-happy faction. The player then has to decide whether getting the region back is worth whether to go to war with that faction, if he isn't already. Again that reflects the reality of the era, where city states would form themselves into confederations. Even Rome, the tightest of the larger confederations/empires, was still quite fractured.

  9. #9

    Default Re: New Political System

    Quote Originally Posted by Canterbury View Post
    The player then has to decide whether getting the region back is worth whether to go to war with that faction, if he isn't already. Again that reflects the reality of the era, where city states would form themselves into confederations. Even Rome, the tightest of the larger confederations/empires, was still quite fractured.
    If a faction gets a settlement in a civil revolt like that the faction it rebelled from is automatically at war with the recieving faction.

  10. #10

    Default Re: New Political System

    It'd be nice for factions to be able to "re-emerge" like in Medieval I

  11. #11
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: New Political System

    Well, in the first place, all of that would have to be scripted, because RTW has no other mechanism to make it happen. Then, you have to somehow try to foresee every possible combination of events, regarding 'a' region and 'a' faction that was invading or more preferable under a certain set of circumstances....it would be a monstrous script, to say the least.

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  12. #12
    Libertus
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    Default Re: New Political System

    I like the idea. But I can imagine it being monstrously irritating if it was implemented. Constantly bickering with factions for certain territories would drive me insane! By that I mean the settlement changing allegiances on me all the time. I mean obviously you fight factions on your frontiers etc.

    The thing is I can see this being valid for say like the Seleucids. But for a faction like Rome? Where borders are more or less solid( With the existence of limes and border forts) it doesn't seem like that would work!

    Nice idea though

  13. #13

    Default Re: New Political System

    Quote Originally Posted by sadlogic View Post
    If a faction gets a settlement in a civil revolt like that the faction it rebelled from is automatically at war with the recieving faction.
    Arrgh, bugger. Forgot that.

    My next idea was unfortunately what dvk901 has just described, [Call it the "Hail the Liberators" script] so no joy there. Back to the drawing board then. It's just that I did like the idea of whole regions rather than individuals having loyalty issues, and that disloyalty being expressed not simply through rebellion but through a change of faction, a rather more dangerous phenomenon.

    To be honest Antiochus_III, sending you mental was the purpose of the idea. I've always hated the steamroller, always will, and try to come up with realistic, acceptable and doable ideas that will slow it down. Failed on the last at least. Not on the first though. The ancient world was quite a fluid place, with quick changes of loyalty according to circumstance. Look at the Roman experience in the conquest of Gaul, and even more the conquest of Iberia. Anatolia was a bit of nightmare as well. Now if RTW had a decent diplomatic system, where vulnerable regions could be targeted by the AI, none of this would be necessary...

  14. #14
    GreatOne's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: New Political System

    The hidden resources used for determining aor or nation homelands could also be used to determine which region goes over to what faction, and a set of circumstances which would have a chance to trigger the crossover. For example a large enemy presence, or a small garrison confronted by a huge population, low happiness, being besieged by a large enemy force. All of these conditions would give a city a chance to rebel

    This should only be implemented for player controlled faction because it would be devastating for NPC factions, then again it could combat the steamroller in one portion of the world. For example one of the checks would be the number of provinces owned by a faction would give a small chance for the non homeland regions to rebel. It could be a balancing factor in a region, giving back the regions that the faction that is currently steamrolling to the faction that is on the brink of destruction.

    Also if it is a major city in a region like Athens or Carthage or one of the major Gallic cities that rebels, it could also give a chance for the surrounding cities to rebel making it a major rebellion which player would have to combat with several armies, representing internal struggles. In my opinion sitting idly fighting frontier battles and eventually overcoming them as it always happens is a bit boring, bringing these rebellions similar to the big Roman rebellions which are random could give a surprise or two to the player making him step back from his conquests and consolidate

    It shouldn't really be implemented for each city at a time differently, the script could be generalised with small exceptions to make a difference for the big regional centers or it could be made so that if one city with a "hidden resource1" rebels then all the cities with "hidden resource1" gain a higher chance to rebel. Which would make even more generalised, and you can simply copy it for each individual city.

    All in all i love the idea and would very much like to see it implemented, as it would be an awesome unique RS feature, making campaign even more difficult, and we all do love a challenge don't we


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