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Thread: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

  1. #10481

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    The idea isn't bad. Daenerys turning into madness was the only way her character was going to work. Otherwise she was going to be far too bland, and that was set up to the beginning.
    It's the execution that's really messed up. Especially the military parts. Oh god the military. I was already awestruck by how the people were so inspired by the battle of the bastards, even though it was so stupid.
    And oh god the talk about civilians in their military planning was also just stupid, and troop sizes being cut down and then magically regenerated in whatever way is necessary for the plot.
    I tend to agree. The battle episode at King's Landing also featured lots of stabbing - or even worse, slashing - through plate armour.


    1) The white saviour complex for one, "freeing" the primitives from themselves, earning their unquestioning devotion to her, as if they couldn't have any individuality. It's somewhat... ok? I guess except it really shouldn't even have ended on that note
    Well yeah; on the other hand, the Unsullied are so messed up and systematically broken as part of their training that it makes sense for them to follow Dany to whatever end. And did you, and other people who have similar complaints, forget what the Dothraki are? They're a terrestrial version of the Ironborn who mostly like to murder, rape, and pillage. Oddly enough, I don't see many complaints about the Ironborn being portrayed (however unintentionally) as terrible people, even though they are. Other than the Dothraki, the Unsullied, and her closest circle of advisors, there were no significant numbers of Dany's subjects with her in Westeros. And her subjects back in Essos did on occasion show individual agendas, for example when they revolted, and got massacred as a result. So I'd argue while there definitely is such a thing as a "white saviour complex", and it does manifest in some other movies or shows, GoT isn't the best example.


    (Greyworm as the only black character ending that way leaves a bad taste), and
    Grey Worm isn't black, he's a mulatto or whatever mulatto-like race there is supposed to be somewhere in GRRM's world. Same goes for Missandei BTW, who frankly looks more Middle Eastern or Southern European in terms of complexion and features than black African. The actress could pretty easily pass for a Berber.
    Frankly, given the setting of this particular show, I don't think there needs to be an "adequate representation" of black people or any other race from most non-Westerosi places at all. That's just an American thing where you people get worked up over any given TV show not representing your particular national demographics.
    FWIW, Grey Worm turned into a villain following his mistress, and most shows would've had him die horribly for that.


    2) The bad optics of having the white peoples getting to defend the walls while the ethnics get cut down in front of them, as if they were worth less and acceptable cannon fodder?! :/
    "Ethnic" is not a noun. It's an adjective meaning "pertaining to the people" and frankly, using it as a noun makes anyone look like a retard. I assume you mean "non-whites" or something like that and TBH, I think you're reading something into the troop deployment that really isn't there. D&D, GRRM, and the rest of the crew might have many flaws, but "subconscious white supremacism" is one of the last things I'd accuse them of.


    Which all in all isn't something I usually obsess about (I'm all for leaving politics out of art), but this is a topic the show writers themselves put into the story. If you decide to have girl power moments in the story for no better reason than girl power (I'm not talking about the early strong women that were done right, but in the last seasons those stupid moments), if you decide to have those messages in your story, you better make sure then you do it right. Because the way they did it sends of some completely wrong messages.
    I found it rather hilarious how they subverted themselves with the "girl power" thing and it turned out to be semi-OK in the end. Except for the wasted Dorne storyline.

    Speaking of Dorne, I wish their represenative had had something to say in the last episode. I find it very hard to believe that he or one of his aides didn't at least get a seat on the council as a concession. Given how their country is characterized, I'd have expected them to declare independence.

  2. #10482
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Speaking of Dorne, I wish their represenative had had something to say in the last episode. I find it very hard to believe that he or one of his aides didn't at least get a seat on the council as a concession. Given how their country is characterized, I'd have expected them to declare independence.
    I would have liked to see the new Dornish prince guy say a couple lines about how he got there and a formal nod to Ellaria who died in the Red Keep when it crumbled. I guess Daenerys just kind of forgot that one of her loyal allies was being held as a prisoner there, like how she just kinda forgot that Euron Greyjoy's fleet existed after blockading Greyworm at Casterly Rock and destroying Yara Greyjoy's fleet allied with Daenerys. So many things just went unexplained, and not just minor trivial points either. Say what you want about her obnoxious Sand Snake daughters (speaking of overused "girl power"), but Ellaria became one of the major characters since her husband Oberyn's death in season 4.

    Also, good response! It was entertaining.

  3. #10483
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  4. #10484

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Come to think of it: I betcha they didn't mention the origins/story of the white walkers because they'll monetise that in some spin-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Gilligan
    I can't think of a movie where I like it that the bad guy gets dumb, because it's like I want the bad guy to be smart smart smart, so the good guy has to be even smarter!
    Please stop using politics as an excuse for bad writing.
    That being said: A deep philosophical take about god, Nietzsche, Marx & faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    So deep!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    A polished masterpiece!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Hey! I never said any of those things!

  5. #10485

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Come to think of it: I betcha they didn't mention the origins/story of the white walkers because they'll monetise that in some spin-off.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #10486

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    but Ellaria became one of the major characters since her husband Oberyn's death in season 4.
    She will always be Niobe to me.
    And Mance will always be Caeser to me.

    " HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME!!"

    Come to think of it: I betcha they didn't mention the origins/story of the white walkers because they'll monetise that in some spin-off.
    Isn't the spin off in the works to be about the long night? So i suspect that is the case. To Delve deeper into the story of the Night king and the white walkers. GoT didn't explained much, besides hinting it that the Night King is nothing more then skynet, which is boring as hell.

  7. #10487

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Isn't the spin off in the works to be about the long night? So i suspect that is the case. To Delve deeper into the story of the Night king and the white walkers. GoT didn't explained much, besides hinting it that the Night King is nothing more then skynet, which is boring as hell.
    Yea you just gotta fine-tune his hilariously wrong argument because...what?

    I mean...It's like Cookiegod didn't even watch the series.

    Dude. Just call Cookiegod wrong.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  8. #10488
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    why do we even need an origin story for everything? did the borg have one?

  9. #10489

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    There's no reason to have an origin story for everything.

  10. #10490

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Yea you just gotta fine-tune his hilariously wrong argument because...what?

    I mean...It's like Cookiegod didn't even watch the series.

    Dude. Just call Cookiegod wrong.
    He isn't wrong. Thats why the spin off is called the long night. During the age of heroes. Well only the pilot as been green lit by HBO. So far.

    There's no reason to have an origin story for everything.
    Im not interested in an origin story, but i wished they made the white walkers more interesting. As it is, in the show, the Night king must be the worst Villain ever in a high fantasy setting.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; May 26, 2019 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #10491

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    He isn't wrong. Thats why the spin off is called the long night. During the age of heroes. Well only the pilot as been green lit by HBO. So far.
    Cookiegod said there was no origin of the white walkers/others in the show. Did you watch the show? Did you even read the post right before yours?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  12. #10492
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    why do we even need an origin story for everything? did the borg have one?
    Admitedly the end of the lo g night is when all the cool stuff happens, like the wall and most of the castles bwing built, Valyria rising and basically all the great houses being founded.

    A spinoff was a given.
    Under the patronage of Squid Girl. I am here, click me!



  13. #10493

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Cookiegod said there was no origin of the white walkers/others in the show. Did you watch the show? Did you even read the post right before yours?
    He isn't wrong that they will make a spin off, about the origins of the white walkers.

    And you call that in season 6 an origin story? it is pretty mild. If its even true, which im not entirely convinced.

  14. #10494

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    And you call that in season 6 an origin story? it is pretty mild. If its even true, which im not entirely convinced.
    Yes I call it an origin. Whether they rewrite or not is up to them. The fact that the time spent on the story is greater than zero is obviously beyond you. When I can link to a scene that's in the tv show is...a fact. We have the story of the White Walkers. Nobody in this thread can say that the origin of the White Walkers was not in the Game of Thrones tv show. Not without lying through their teeth in this thread now that I've linked the video.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  15. #10495

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Not only that clip showed who was the NK but how he became so and why the Children of the forest made him that way. I think there was a scene where Bran and jojen find the 3ER and talk to the children of the forest before being run down by White Walker attack.

  16. #10496

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Yes I call it an origin. Whether they rewrite or not is up to them. The fact that the time spent on the story is greater than zero is obviously beyond you.
    Yep Gaidin, you're right. 0.01 is more than 0. Though for me 0.01~=0.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    When I can link to a scene that's in the tv show is...a fact. We have the story of the White Walkers. Nobody in this thread can say that the origin of the White Walkers was not in the Game of Thrones tv show. Not without lying through their teeth in this thread now that I've linked the video.
    Thing is, I know that scene, most people do. It's not like anyone was going to deny it. It tells me very little, but for you I'm sure everything is a fantastic masterpiece. I still don't get what they're about, why they went north if their targets were south, why they seemed to have been dormant for so long, why the night king has such a weird relationship to the 3eyed raven, and so on, and so on. But again: For you it's probably all perfect. Either that or you were deliberately trolling.

    What I said and I stand by it, is that they probably consciously decided not to answer anything about the white walkers, in order to hype another spin-off. I didn't even know that one had even been announced. I merely assumed it. Knights of Heaven confirmed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Gilligan
    I can't think of a movie where I like it that the bad guy gets dumb, because it's like I want the bad guy to be smart smart smart, so the good guy has to be even smarter!
    Please stop using politics as an excuse for bad writing.
    That being said: A deep philosophical take about god, Nietzsche, Marx & faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    So deep!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    A polished masterpiece!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Hey! I never said any of those things!

  17. #10497

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    It's all about the Benjamins, baby.

    Yeah if they're preparing for a spin off, maybe that's why they kept it a bit vague or simplistic.

  18. #10498
    Vladyvid's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Ishan, you put a Donald Duck with a mandela effect - them dollar signs have 2 stripes, unlike our current timeline. I know its unrelated to this topic, but i had to point this out...

  19. #10499

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Thing is, I know that scene, most people do. It's not like anyone was going to deny it. It tells me very little, but for you I'm sure everything is a fantastic masterpiece. I still don't get what they're about, why they went north if their targets were south, why they seemed to have been dormant for so long, why the night king has such a weird relationship to the 3eyed raven, and so on, and so on. But again: For you it's probably all perfect. Either that or you were deliberately trolling.

    What I said and I stand by it, is that they probably consciously decided not to answer anything about the white walkers, in order to hype another spin-off. I didn't even know that one had even been announced. I merely assumed it. Knights of Heaven confirmed it.
    I'm not trolling. What I'm saying is that should you say the tv show didn't put an origin story up, make god damn sure the tv show didn't put an origin story up. Not just one you didn't like.

    Thing is, depending on how you look at what the tv show did, and what the books did, I don't like what the tv show did. The books have either no origin for the Others or an origin for every society. Because their rush down from the Land of Always Winter was just that mysterious and sudden. The Northern society seems to have their own take just in the stories they tell(see Old Nan). Melisandre's take puts a very religious spin believing the Others are the cold children of the Great Other that one may see other red priests believing but has a much higher order to the Others than just this "colder demoned" species that suddenly came out of the high north and will someday come again. Craster calls himself a godly man, while his wives say he leaves his male children for the Others who they believe become Others, whom he calls 'the Gods' and believes he doesn't have to fear any attacks from them.

    When you look at the books there is just nothing to pin down here. Where the tv show, all it was was a self-defense mechanism the Children of the Forest lost control of.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  20. #10500

    Default Re: Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I'm not trolling. What I'm saying is that should you say the tv show didn't put an origin story up, make god damn sure the tv show didn't put an origin story up. Not just one you didn't like.
    Fine: GoT gives us one fraction of an origin story. I still don't know what exactly happened beyond that guy getting his heart stabbed (didn't watch your youtubevideo, that's what I remember by heart); I still don't know any of the other stuff I mentioned or the dozens of other questions anyone could come up with, but yeah. It had 0.01% of an origin story. Which makes me technically incorrect. I'll have to be treated in a burn warden for a month now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Thing is, depending on how you look at what the tv show did, and what the books did, I don't like what the tv show did. The books have either no origin for the Others or an origin for every society. Because their rush down from the Land of Always Winter was just that mysterious and sudden. The Northern society seems to have their own take just in the stories they tell(see Old Nan). Melisandre's take puts a very religious spin believing the Others are the cold children of the Great Other that one may see other red priests believing but has a much higher order to the Others than just this "colder demoned" species that suddenly came out of the high north and will someday come again. Craster calls himself a godly man, while his wives say he leaves his male children for the Others who they believe become Others, whom he calls 'the Gods' and believes he doesn't have to fear any attacks from them.

    When you look at the books there is just nothing to pin down here. Where the tv show, all it was was a self-defense mechanism the Children of the Forest lost control of.
    I don't say you need an origin for every society, I'm not interested in that. The white walkers are supposed to be THE enemy to be overcome. For the night king to be THE enemy to be defeated, there needs to be some understanding as to who or what he exactly is. We never get that. Which is one of the huge reasons why season 7 & 8 didn't work. That's like seeing a bomb detonating but only hearing a fart.

    The "you just don't like it" trope is getting old. What was this thread here about again? If it's not about people being able to mention what they liked or didn't like about the series, what exactly is the point?

    But it's actually not even about that. I'm not a lorewhore, so I don't need to know every nook and cranny of everything. There are specific reasons why some stories work and some don't. Why some villains work and some don't. I can't believe GRRM and D&D didn't have their ideas as to why all this is going on. This is very crucial information. I hence do believe they deliberately chose to not include it in the story. The most likely being a spin-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Gilligan
    I can't think of a movie where I like it that the bad guy gets dumb, because it's like I want the bad guy to be smart smart smart, so the good guy has to be even smarter!
    Please stop using politics as an excuse for bad writing.
    That being said: A deep philosophical take about god, Nietzsche, Marx & faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    So deep!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    A polished masterpiece!
    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Hey! I never said any of those things!

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