Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

[Vladyvid]

Right now its not about GoT anymore i think, but more like showing D&D middle finger. At least i signed it for that reason.

[Roma_Victrix]

Say what you want about the episode. That scene with Edmure Tully and Sansa was the highlight.

I enjoyed that, but not even Bronn was funny in this episode aside from his one-liner about brothels at the end I guess. Sam being shot down for suggesting democracy instead of oligarchy was kinda funny and believable in this fictional feudal universe.

I can't decide on what the stupidest part of the ending was, but it is telling i had to fast-forward parts of the episode

Maybe the worst was that the dragon just left, cause it would be convenient.

I interpreted that as him being unable to kill a Targaryen like Jon Snow (i.e. Aegon Targaryen), even if he killed his "mother" Daenerys. Not sure where he screwed off to or why he'd want to leave Jon...to go to the ruins of Valyria? Uh, okay. I'm not sure if dragons are capable of understanding the nuances of politics, but his burning of the Iron Throne instead is supposed to symbolize Dany's breaking of the wheel or something. Speaking of which, KOH's meme here:

That's simply perfection. I guess D&D want us to infer all of this instead of actually demonstrating it in the show with something other than dragon fire melting iron into liquid metal.

[Ishan]

The wheel is broken. But now we have two.

[saxdude]

Gaiden and Halie's arguments these past few episodes remind me of the people defending Man of Steel as a good movie.

[PointOfViewGun]

Gaiden and Halie's arguments these past few episodes remind me of the people defending Man of Steel as a good movie.

Yeah, because Man of Steel is a great movie!

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

Now, I know you guys love to ignore me but...

How about this?



Ep 1: Everyone turns up at Winterfell. Sansa and Daenarys become BFFs. Jon begins prepping the defenses of Winterfell. He starts considering riding Rhaegal into battle. Tyrion is nowhere to be found.
Ep 2: Night battle. Everybody dies or gets seriously injured. Night King takes Winterfell. Arya escapes with Bran. Wormsey is dead. Davos is dead. Brienne is dead. Dragons didn't do against the Undead Horde. Whights are everywhere. Tyrion is still missing.
Ep 3: Night Lord advances towards King's Landing. His army is ginormous. Bran goes back in time and becomes Night King & Brandon the Builder at the same time.
Ep 4: Danny finds out she's related to Jon and goes bat crazy and burns everyone. Including Gendry.
Ep 5: Cersei ambushes army or leftovers of Jon's survivors. Tyrion appears, riding at the top of her army. SHOCK AND AWE! Also, Bronn is a White Walker now. Because reasons.
Ep 6: Jaime strangles Cersei as Dany burns the Red Keep with her one last surviving dragon. Jon begs Danny to come down so they can talk. He stabs her and becomes Azzor Ahai. Enter the Night King who says to Jon
'This is all I wanted all along'
He taps Jon on the shoulder and dies. Tyrion, still married to Sansa becomes Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. He breaks the freaking Iron Throne down and declares Westeros a republic. Also, Jon Night King Targaryen goes back to the Land of Always Winter and promises to Tyrion that his ice boys will stay frosty as long as no warm-blooded idiot goes over the Barrier. Again.
Tyrion agrees. Sansa gives birth to baby. It's a boy. He looks exactly like Ramsay.

THE END

I was right.

[HannibalExMachina]

so, can we give this thread something for the pain, and let it die?

aye for ARRRRya, queen of the seas!

pod the rod is stuck pushing a wheelchair.

littlefinger owned a brothel, bronn will own ALL THE BROTHELS!

jon fullfills edds prophecy, is the only one in the nights watch to serve even after death, and promptly runs off with the wildlings. the absolute madlad!

bran proves that ruling with your dick isnt sustainable, adresses root problem.

lord arryn is still a boob.

props to the extra who now can write "Prince of Dorne, in: Game of Thrones" on his resumee.

edmure is still a boob.

tyrion gets to finish his joke OR DOES HE?

thats all, folks, see you on D&Ds star wars, A New Boob!

[Gaidin]

Gaiden and Halie's arguments these past few episodes remind me of the people defending Man of Steel as a good movie.

I’m not sure you even processed what I wrote and the transition that the show made.

You be you. You go on having no experience watching and analyzing this kind of television.

[Kyriakos]

so, can we give this thread something for the pain, and let it die?

aye for ARRRRya, queen of the seas!

pod the rod is stuck pushing a wheelchair.

littlefinger owned a brothel, bronn will own ALL THE BROTHELS!

jon fullfills edds prophecy, is the only one in the nights watch to serve even after death, and promptly runs off with the wildlings. the absolute madlad!

bran proves that ruling with your dick isnt sustainable, adresses root problem.

lord arryn is still a boob.

props to the extra who now can write "Prince of Dorne, in: Game of Thrones" on his resumee.

edmure is still a boob.

tyrion gets to finish his joke OR DOES HE?

thats all, folks, see you on D&Ds star wars, A New Boob!

I infer from the number of boobs in your post that you have been talking to Skeletor.

[Morifea]

The moment when Drogon touched Deanerys was kinda heartbreaking...

They should have made two Seasons out of it, one for the fight against the WW´s one for the political part.

Lets hope we will ever get the books, so we can see the "real" end of the Story.

[Cookiegod]

Lets hope we will ever get the books, so we can see the "real" end of the Story.

In all fairness to D&D: We probably won't.

One key factor (out of several) that made the show progressively worse from season 6 onwards was that it was plot driven. Plot driven means: We know what we want, now let's try to make the pieces fit to get the desired result. Even if it doesn't make sense.

GRRM is a gardener. He grew his story. He does have a plan (very likely), or did at least. And he did have that plan from the start. But it's vague. So the story has grown and grown and appears to have a million plotlines too many. The more story elements you have, the harder it becomes.

I talked about that phenomenon (or rather: My personal theory that came right out of my back end) in the writers study once. Basically, the more building blocks you have, the harder writing the story becomes. Exponentially, since you as a writer have to consider all the interactions between all the elements the story has. If you have 10 story elements, it's 100 times harder than if you have just one. And it's even harder to solve an element without inadvertedly introducing another one.

So I for one do not think GRRM will be able to finish his story.

[kelembribor21]

My short synopsis of GOT series : "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing."

[Copperknickers II]

You're really going out of your way to defend this. Daenerys already knew about the game plan due to Tyrion. She was perched with her dragon above the city streets and could see her army below, where Lannister soldiers had surrendered to Jon Snow and Greyworm. In either case, what do peasants in the streets have to do with Cersei? Nothing. The Red Keep was her target or at least it should have been after she already laid waste to the city walls and scorpion ballistae mounted on them.

Am I really 'going out of my way'? Is it such a stretch to posit that a military leader might at times disagree with their own advisors and commit an act of mass murder in order to achieve his/her aims? If you believe that only 'bad people' are capable of committing immoral actions, then I think you misunderstand human nature profoundly - it doesn't matter if a person does 'good things' when it's a simple decision for them to make. If you were only arguing that the storyline and motives were not sufficiently fleshed out due to the insanely rushed pace, then I'd agree with you totally. But claiming that it's somehow unbelievable for a utopian idealist to resort to indiscrimate murder, when as Tyrion rightly said, she had good reason to believe that everyone who was not on her side was out to get her and was firmly convinced that anyone who stood between her and her ultimate goal was her enemy, doesn't compute with me.

I think you might consider taking a step back here, looking past the inexpert storytelling, and contemplating the themes at play here. Utopia leading to ruin. Power leading to corruption of a good nature. Betrayal by those closest leading to paranoia and ruthlessness. Those are entirely valid themes and thus Dany's actions were thematically valid. It's in large part an allegory for 20th century history and I think, as pop culture fantasy entertainment created by American TV execs go, it was a good allegory. I don't read the books and I'm not a GoT fan per se, but that's what I took from it. I'm sure I got some of the details wrong and I'm happy to be corrected, I know there's a whole subculture around GoT I will never be part of who knows all the details back to front but I don't have time for that. I'm just giving my two cents as a casual watcher.

[Gaidin]

Am I really 'going out of my way'? Is it such a stretch to posit that a military leader might at times disagree with their own advisors and commit an act of mass murder in order to achieve his/her aims? If you believe that only 'bad people' are capable of committing immoral actions, then I think you misunderstand human nature profoundly - it doesn't matter if a person does 'good things' when it's a simple decision for them to make.

Well, there's also the fact that Tyrion's plans started going off the rails in Season 7 early on. Politically his plan wasn't a bad one from a high level given what Dany initially wanted from a high level on arrival in Westeros, but Jaime countered it rather well. So Dany then countered Jaime in 7x04. This is not a strange thing in war.

She was also rather unfamiliar with the politics of Westeros irregardless. So that's another point against Tyrion's strange advising. It certainly doesn't mean Tyrion is giving bad advice. But one thing is for sure, when the leader isn't taking the adviser's advice, what good is it to be an adviser? Last of all, as an adviser, when the leader does something you morally disagree with, and something you stressed a plan to avoid, and even succeeded at doing to some or all degree, but they went forward with anyway, what do you do as an adviser? You are useless in your position. They can accuse you of any number of things, true or false. In Tyrion's case ironically true. But first thing's first, if the leader is on a hot streak of not taking your advice, you're dead weight as an adviser.

[Cookiegod]

The idea isn't bad. Daenerys turning into madness was the only way her character was going to work. Otherwise she was going to be far too bland, and that was set up to the beginning.
It's the execution that's really messed up. Especially the military parts. Oh god the military. I was already awestruck by how the people were so inspired by the battle of the bastards, even though it was so stupid.
And oh god the talk about civilians in their military planning was also just stupid, and troop sizes being cut down and then magically regenerated in whatever way is necessary for the plot.

There were also some not so subtle racist undertones specifically surrounding the Daenerys story line:
1) The white saviour complex for one, "freeing" the primitives from themselves, earning their unquestioning devotion to her, as if they couldn't have any individuality. It's somewhat... ok? I guess except it really shouldn't even have ended on that note (Greyworm as the only black character ending that way leaves a bad taste), and
2) The bad optics of having the white peoples getting to defend the walls while the ethnics get cut down in front of them, as if they were worth less and acceptable cannon fodder?! :/

Which all in all isn't something I usually obsess about (I'm all for leaving politics out of art), but this is a topic the show writers themselves put into the story. If you decide to have girl power moments in the story for no better reason than girl power (I'm not talking about the early strong women that were done right, but in the last seasons those stupid moments), if you decide to have those messages in your story, you better make sure then you do it right. Because the way they did it sends of some completely wrong messages.

It's also the reason why I don't get people who defend Star Wars and GoT at the same time.

[Knight of Heaven]

I do know the slavery in Essos, is akin to the Slavery of classical antiquity, of ancient Greece and Rome etc. So i do not think it was meant to be ethnically based or relevant.
Still.

[Cookiegod]

You misunderstood me here. I wasn't talking about GRRM. I haven't read his novels, and I wasn't referencing the early seasons. It's the late ones were that becomes really apparent.

Just like with the rest of the show, it's more about execution than principle. The early seasons, like the late ones, for example, had strong female characters. It was just much smarter about it.
In the late ones you have those weird scenes that just don't work. And that's where we get a modicum of wokeness introduced from time to time. Which per se wouldn't have been a problem, except that they were done poorly, and when you start preaching standards you have to adhere to them, which they did not do. The early seasons had so much nuance over them, that even if there was a racist element, you wouldn't notice it so well. In the late seasons you have this crude black-white thing with very flat characters, and that's where it gets really botched.

The former slaves had the same arc laid out for them as Sansa. Their natural progression would've been towards independence, selfconfidence, having an agency of their own instead of blindly following a leader "because they want to" (honestly they could've hinted at some stockholm syndrome and it'd've been fine), etc.
But they never got any real agency to speak of. Which was so weird.
They are supposed to be free, but don't act like that in the slightest.

A similar thing goes for Dorne, btw. Started out so strong with Oberyn, and then they're just a bunch of hedonist weaklings, who are incapable of getting anything done whatsoever.

[Knight of Heaven]

Just like with the rest of the show, it's more about execution than principle. The early seasons, like the late ones, for example, had strong female characters. It was just much smarter about it.

Frankly earlier seasons were smarter generally speaking

A similar thing goes for Dorne, btw. Started out so strong with Oberyn, and then they're just a bunch of hedonist weaklings, who are incapable of getting anything done whatsoever.

Dorne in Season 5 was probably where the disappointments started in the show. it is a shame, though, as i think is quite an intriguing place and it has an interesting story line in the books.

[Roma_Victrix]

The true Azor Ahai fulfills the prophecy as it was foretold and emerges from the flames triumphant!
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/co..._fulfills_his/

Also, the comments to this one. Pure gold.
https://tinyurl.com/yyzdclgo

"'It truly was A Song of Ice and Fire, Mr. Tyrion', said Samwise."
"Samwise Tarly was hands down the best character in Lord of the Thrones!"

[Knight of Heaven]

Bobby B is the best ruler in the show.

also

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