Carthage Lover's?

[nathanb1296]

Well guy's im new enough to this site but im wondering why Carthage isnt one the most popular factions? I love them purely for their history but im wondering for the people that love Carthage, why that is? is it because of their history, rome total war or any other reason, share down below.

[Asgaroth]

I love Carthage because of its history,culture and their great leader, Hannibal Barca.

[nathanb1296]

Extacely why I love them

[Punic Hoplite]

I love Carthage because of their history, how they developed into the empire they had, as well as their culture and of course the Punic Wars, though I myself find the First Punic War vastly more interesting than the Second or Third.

If you want book recommendations, just comment saying so or PM me, I can give you at least 10 books that go deep into detail about all of Carthage, not just Hannibal and the Second Punic War.

[ILikePortillos]

I had the incredible opportunity of stopping off in Tunis on my honeymoon. Beautiful city. Got to do some shopping in a bazaar. Tons of history there.

[Lord of Cats]

I like the real Carthage for its history and because it produced one of the greatest generals in history: Hannibal Barca. I don't like Carthage's culture if it includes sacrificing children to Baal. I like the faction Carthage in RTW because of its challenging spread-out position, good calvalry and access to elephants. However I do hope when CA comes out with Rome2TW that Carthage is made into a mighty faction at the start. In 270BCE it was a very wealthy and influential force in the western mediterranean. Rome shouldn't steam-role it in the beggining like it always does in RTW.

[anycolourfloyd]

I love Carthage because of their history, how they developed into the empire they had, as well as their culture and of course the Punic Wars, though I myself find the First Punic War vastly more interesting than the Second or Third.

If you want book recommendations, just comment saying so or PM me, I can give you at least 10 books that go deep into detail about all of Carthage, not just Hannibal and the Second Punic War.

what did the carthaginians generally look like physically? i've kinda idly wondered this for a while.

[Punic Hoplite]

what did the carthaginians generally look like physically? i've kinda idly wondered this for a while.

From what I've read online (none of the books thus far has gone into what they looked like and had evidence to support it) they were not black, in the sense of sub-Saharan Africa black, but not completely White either, in the sense of a German or Swede or somesuch. What I think of them as is something similar to an Arab or Sicilian, though perhaps a tad more tan/dark. I think it would depend on if you are talking aristocracy or commoner. But again, I haven't found anything, with evidence, that says they were X instead of Y or Z.

[Castel]

what did the carthaginians generally look like physically?

Pretty much like today's Syrian, Lebanese or Iranian people i guess.

[Punic Hoplite]

Here's the listAsgaroth, it won't let me send you a PM...

The Fall of Carthage by Adrian Goldsworthy (good book about the Punic Wars, with a good bit on Carthage's military and government)
The Phoenicians by Sabatino Moscati (collection of essays and papers on the Phoenicians, with some about Carthage. I have yet to read it, as I am currently in the middle of the book next in line.)
Carthage: A History by Serge Lancel (A MUST, though it is spendy to get)
The Punic Wars by Brian Caven
Dionysius I by Brian Caven (Good history about Carthage pre-Punic Wars)
With Arrow, Sword, and Spear by Alfred Bradford (Deals with ancient warfare in general, with a section on Hannibal)
The Phoenicians and the West by Maria Eugenia Aubet (Deals mostly with the colonies, but talks about Carthage in depth)

I'll see if I can find my other books, as this is not the entire list. I just can't seem to find them... Also the list does not include Polybius, Livy and such.

[Asgaroth]

Here's the listAsgaroth, it won't let me send you a PM...

Hmm. This is not the first time that it happened.

Thank you for the list Punic Hoplite

+ rep to you for the effort !

[Asgaroth]

What I think of them as is something similar to an Arab or Sicilian, though perhaps a tad more tan/dark.

And you think correct. They came from the(Eastern Mediterranean) land that is today know as the state of Lebanon, which is surrounded with Syria and Israel. And all the people from there were similar to todays Arabs or in that time to Judeans.


We know little about their physical appearance as Punic Hoplite added and that is their own fault.

Since Phoenicians preferred to keep their private affairs strictly private, the Phoenicians made almost no pictures of themselves,whether as sculptures, paintings or on their highly-prized metalwork. Therefore the historians primarily rely on the many people who came in contact with the Phoenicians to obtain images of them.




Further more, Phoenicians were great merchants and sailors and Carthage, which later became know as the centre of a mighty empire was just one of the 9 most important trade roots of the Phoenicians.

1. Antioch
2.Cyprus
3. Crete
4. Sicily
5. Cyrenia
6. Massilia
7. Marseilles
8. Spain
9. South Britain

[Punic Hoplite]

Further more, Phoenicians were great merchants and sailors and Carthage, which later became know as the centre of a mighty empire was just one of the 9 most important trade roots of the Phoenicians.

1. Antioch
2.Cyprus
3. Crete
4. Sicily
5. Cyrenia
6. Massilia
7. Marseilles
8. Spain
9. South Britain

I wouldn't count numbers 5-7 or 9. Cyrene was a Greek colony, and was actually the reason why Carthage never went past Arae Philenorum in present day Libya. They were direct competitors of Carthage and the Phoenicians.

6/7 are the same thing, and is also a Greek colony. They controlled the very lucrative Rhone valley trade with the Celts, and would oppose Carthage every chance it got. Take the Second Punic War for example, when they were allied to Rome and not Carthage, and served as a base for the Romans to operate from, one of the reasons why Hannibal had to go the Alps route, the Romans were at Massilia.

And 9, while true that they did go to Britain for tin and such, they did not do so on a large scale and regularly, as they did with say Spain or the Ophir (talking about Phoenicians here). Carthage also didn't regularly trade with Britain because of the distance it took to get there, and they had other things to worry about than getting tin. They could get iron, silver and lead much easier in Iberia, the Balaerics or Sardinia than tin in Cornwall.

[Asgaroth]

I know that they were greek colonies.

I was speaking about ancient phoenicians and their trade roots not about Carthage. And I was speaking about trade roots, not trade colonies.

And here is a good source for Phoenician trade roots :

http://phoenicia.org/trade.html

[King of Thessaly]

I only like Carthage for their soldiers looks.

[Asgaroth]

Pretty much like today's Syrian, Lebanese or Iranian people i guess.

Hmm, maybe as todays Syrians, Lebanese or Iranians are arabs, and Carthaginians came out of a different kind of people.

[debux]

My love started from looking at unit previews while I was waiting to get my first RTW copy. I loved the colours, unit selection, and position, plus the little history I knew then. After p'laying RTW vanilla, I got so depressed at how nerfed they were (it felt so stupid that the only the armies composed of Sacred Band infantry and cavalry were above average). Love came back agian and has stayed after discovering mods. Usually, Carthage is the first faction I play with any mod.

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I like Carthage because of the "what if" moments of history related to the Punic Wars where Carthage almost destroyed Rome, that would have definitely changed the course of history.

[Asgaroth]

My love started from looking at unit previews while I was waiting to get my first RTW copy. I loved the colours, unit selection, and position, plus the little history I knew then.

I completely agree on this.

Well, lets hope CA gives them the sam colors and etc. in Rome 2 : Total war when they make it, haha. And just makes them a little stronger, so they can actually don't get so smashed by the romans.

[BM309K58SMERCH]

Oh, I love Carthage, And everything related to it. (Fellow Arabs, hehe)
As soon as I found out that Carthage (specifically Hannibal) historically terrorized Rome, I knew that serious business will be going down in RTW. But to my dissapointment, their units aren't as good, and they tend to rout very quickly. The only special unit that they have are the elephants and their armored varieties. I loved those, but the rest of the units are embarassingly rubbish and the notable lack of archers (well, it's historically "OK") is disturbing. Maybe i'm just not good as them. :S