Advice? (Should I become a vassal?)

**The Mouth** · June 14, 2012, 01:55 PM

So the current status of my Teutonic campaign is this: After crushing both Vilnius and Hrodna(?), I'm besieging Lithuania's final town. A short time before this however both Denmark AND Novgorod decided it was absolutely necessary to randomly blockade my ports, cutting off precious trade income; so now I'm at war with both, with Denmark having half a stack in that town north of Riga and Novgorod seemingly mobilizing against me. My economy is crap at the moment and I can barely afford to reinforce Riga let alone Vilnius while at the same time keeping a large enough garrison to scare away Poland and of course maintaining my siege. But something interesting happened: Novgorod offered to let me become a vassal...

As much as I hate the thought of swallowing my pride (Especially the thought of a religious order becoming the vassals of Orthodox Christians; just doesn't seem like something that would happen) should I accept the offer of becoming a vassal to take off some pressure?

Advice on my current situation?

**Jaymax** · June 14, 2012, 02:03 PM

I believe becoming a vassal gives them half of your income each turn, which isn't exactly ideal considering that becoming a vassal doesn't guarantee your safety. It simply delays being attacked, and don't forget that becoming a vassal basically gives them access to all of your lands. You could just try and hold them off I guess.

Off topic I guess: How exactly did you get to play as the Teutonic Order?

**The Mouth** · June 14, 2012, 02:10 PM

You have to choose a Late Era campaign in the SS setup; you can find it in your SS folder. The Teutonic Order will be one of the playable factions (Along with the Mongols if you didn't know).

**Jaymax** · June 14, 2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by The Mouth

You have to choose a Late Era campaign in the SS setup; you can find it in your SS folder. The Teutonic Order will be one of the playable factions (Along with the Mongols if you didn't know).

Thanks. I knew there was some way to play them, but I didn't know you had to do it in the late campaign.

On topic: I agree with Mars, the AI isn't that smart, and if you're on Gracul AI, you'll bet your ass they'll betray you as soon as you give them access to your lands.

**Son of Mars** · June 14, 2012, 03:39 PM

Yeah try to hold them off, fight to last if you must, I don't want to imagine what the AI does with a human vassal. Failing that, start over, doesn't sound like you're too far.

**Strengelicher** · June 15, 2012, 02:50 AM

Strategically, you should become a vassal. It would help you a lot.

However, if you have any honour in you, you will send the Novgorodian diplomat's head back on a stick. Withdraw from the Lithuanians' last settlement and try to vassalize THEM. Bring your troops back for defence.

I am currently playing a TO campaign myself (might make an AAR of it). Taking Vilnius and Hrodna in a sweep is a must, but the next step is tricky, as you will expose your little empire somewhere. I decided to take the Polish fortress to the Southwest and the Polish town Southeast of it in another sweep, both were left somewhat unguarded. It will be long before the TO can upgrade Palanga or Vilnius, and they need decent troops badly. So the Polish fortress had to be it. However, that invited the Novgorodians to swarm in from the Northeast. I will now have to consolidate my two newly acquired provinces and drive back the Novgorodians. Not easy considering the bulk of my mobile troops are now in the Southwest and my heir - formerly the governor of Vilnius - was killed in the field by the Novgorodians. Let us know how your campaign goes from time to time.

**Gogolometro** · June 15, 2012, 07:12 AM

Never accept to be vassal of rus. Be smart, ask a crusade to Levant, join all your army and build a new teutonic order there. Is much richer, much interesting, and more developed.

**The Mouth** · June 15, 2012, 07:45 AM

Ok I refused and sure enough Novgorod is beginning to send its armies; some with dismounted Druzhina, in the meantime I may try to get a temporary ceasefire with Lithuania to prevent any attacks from that front...

**miniwally** · June 15, 2012, 10:40 AM

Tell us how it ends up when you know what happens

**Andytheplatypus** · June 15, 2012, 01:59 PM

I just started a TO campaign also.... weird....

I did edit the EDU extensively though to help balance out the units, much better by the way.

I started attacking lithuania at the start because they refused a ceasefire, I took all their cities except 1 and was about to assault it when novgorod and denmark tried to sneak in a take a couple of my cities. Well when they attacked so did poland from the other side.... bastards....

The short version is I allied with lithuania and we are fighting off everyone who attacked, just recently i sneaked a army up and took Novrogod (city), that was a big help. Biggest city in the area.

**The Mouth** · June 15, 2012, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Andytheplatypus

I just started a TO campaign also.... weird....

I did edit the EDU extensively though to help balance out the units, much better by the way.

I started attacking lithuania at the start because they refused a ceasefire, I took all their cities except 1 and was about to assault it when novgorod and denmark tried to sneak in a take a couple of my cities. Well when they attacked so did poland from the other side.... bastards....

The short version is I allied with lithuania and we are fighting off everyone who attacked, just recently i sneaked a army up and took Novrogod (city), that was a big help. Biggest city in the area.

Well isn't that oddly familiar

I'll post what happens tomorrow, right now I've got a whole bunch of downloads and other crap I have to go through.

**Paragon** · June 17, 2012, 08:28 AM

So how did it go? You taught that snow eating pricks who's boss or do I have to scream "SHAMEFURR DISPRRAY COMMIT SUDOKU NOW!"?

**The Mouth** · June 18, 2012, 01:50 AM

Yeah sorry for the lack of an update...

And YES I did succeed! I basically pulled all available units back towards Riga whilst bolstering my armies with whatever recruitable units I could scrounge up and then proceeded to blitz Novgorod (Making me go into the red) taking 3 of their cities (Making me come back out of debt), it was quite epic.

However it did come at a cost I lost Vilnius to the my sworn enemy (Lithuania), they simply wouldn't accept peace no matter how many death threats I threw at them (

) and sadly all of my forces were engaged with Novgorod so no one could help those poor sword milita who where slaughtered at Vilnius.

But my revenge is coming...

**Paragon** · June 18, 2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Mouth

they simply wouldn't accept peace no matter how many death threats I threw at them (

)

Yeah, I wonder was got wrong there.

**Mr.Lannister** · July 23, 2012, 12:19 AM

The best answer is cheating...

**Morbius Sire** · July 23, 2012, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Mouth

So the current status of my Teutonic campaign is this: After crushing both Vilnius and Hrodna(?), I'm besieging Lithuania's final town. A short time before this however both Denmark AND Novgorod decided it was absolutely necessary to randomly blockade my ports, cutting off precious trade income; so now I'm at war with both, with Denmark having half a stack in that town north of Riga and Novgorod seemingly mobilizing against me. My economy is crap at the moment and I can barely afford to reinforce Riga let alone Vilnius while at the same time keeping a large enough garrison to scare away Poland and of course maintaining my siege. But something interesting happened: Novgorod offered to let me become a vassal...

As much as I hate the thought of swallowing my pride (Especially the thought of a religious order becoming the vassals of Orthodox Christians; just doesn't seem like something that would happen) should I accept the offer of becoming a vassal to take off some pressure?

Advice on my current situation?

Well, what I'd do is the following (after saving a distinct file):

I'd reject the vassalage request and I'd:
1) either rush the siege against Lithuania, and transfer whatever battle-ready units back to where they are needed the most.

2) break the siege and let the Lithuanians fight another day. This way, whatever units you have reserved for the siege won't get hurt/damaged.

Depending on the relations with Denmark and Novgorod: I would try to negotiate some quick peace offerings. If not, I'd go on the offensive, try to take a Danish city, and attempt to trade it for a cease-fire.
As for Novgorod, that's more tricky as they have more potential.

There will be some tough turns, but if you play your cards right: you can make it alive.