Racism today

[Kjertesvein]

I just love this story:



The kid got a teacher as father, who advice his son to apply for all the scholarships in the book. The kid do. The kid wins among others, the scholarships of Martin Luther King. He goes up on stage, looks around and see that everyone are black, and it's meant for blacks only. The degree of awkwardness is huge. However, watch the whole thing to get the ending.

Personally, here in Norway, I don't notice any racism worth any note. Off course elderly people who lived before ww2 have their thing, but in terms of systematic racism - haven't noticed any. On the 30 construction sites I've worked at, it was a colorful mix of everything from Norwegian, german, eastern European to Kurdish, to -stan people. Now as I have an office job in the newspaper, we have muslims, jews, christians, atheists, everything.

I'm perfectly willing to accept I'm living in a bubble of bliss on the european snowtop, but is it possible to assume that institutional racism is over? The battle is won. The war on racism is over after 50 years.

PS, for the mods:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trasfere this to PM if your judgement deems it. However, personally I'm interested in status of the theory of racism today, while using this event as a backround for it. Not the other way around, thus placing it in PA.

~Wille

[Himster]

Reverse racism?
It's just regular racism, we just havn't progressed enough to consider it as such in mainstream media yet.

[Kjertesvein]

Updated.

~Wille

[The Despondent Mind]

Personally, here in Norway, I don't notice any racism worth any note. Off course elderly people who lived before ww2 have their thing, but in terms of systematic racism, haven't noticed any. On the 30 construction sites I've worked at, it was a colorful mix of everything from Norwegian, german, eastern European to Kurdish, to -stan people. Now as I have an office job in the newspaper, we have muslims, jews, christians, atheists, everything.

I heard from a Bosniak friend that the " normal " Norwegians degrade ,humiliate and look down upon UnWestern men .

[Kjertesvein]

Ok, can you elaborate on that brief statement with an example?

~Wille

[Dr. Croccer]

Racism by white people is largely done in Western Europe and North America.

Racism by pretty much everyone else, however.

[Claudius Gothicus]

The battles on gender, ethnic and sexuality equality have been won more systematically(in the western world, or at least a great deal of it's bubbles) than the battles on social inequality and social stratification.

This does not mean that racism is over, that gender discrimination and homophobia are over this means that there has been a great deal of legislation preventing said actions from going unpunished, while on the other hand, the problems of stratification(education+occupation) have not been seriously tackled or focused on for at least 10 years now.

Another big battle is the tension between reactionary and liberal points of view in the areas of individual freedom not related to minorities: civil rights pertaining the legalization of drug consumption, euthanasia, the effectiveness of the Penal System and else.

[Kitsunegari]

Racism in its most negative connotation has triuimphed as evidenced in the discrimination against and displacement of European peoples in their own countries.

[Their Law]

Racism in its most negative connotation has triuimphed as evidenced in the discrimination against and displacement of European peoples in their own countries.

Such as?

[Nutsack]

While I agree with you OP that institutional racism is almost over, racism is still far from being over as a whole. Consider that getting a job in many western countries is still a lot harder if you're not white, and a political career as a black person in europe is going to be a harder struggle because of your ethnic background (prejudice of the voters). While these problems are minor, far from the drastic political racism of a hundred years ago they are still important and should be stamped out, however there isn't much we can do about it politically though. Most of the changes has to be done on a societal level, where people come together to change their attitudes and prejudice together to form a more accepting society as a whole. I think this will happen over the next hundred years, because as of right now, a lot of people are racist even if they deny it themselves.

I like to draw an analogy. When we were kids, bullying often occurred when one child was different from the mainstream group. If someone wore glasses, then they would be a victim, and the same occurs if they wore different clothes, etc. What hapens here is that children are very good at seeing differences instead of similarities, and I believe this carries on all the way into adulthood in most people. Most people emphasize differences instead of similarities, which is one of the root causes for racism.

So when someone tells you that they are not racist, they might be lying to both you and themselves. A lot of people are prejudice, but in denial. I've talked to a lot of friends about this and they agree, and I've been told by some of my black friends in Sweden that almost everyone is racist to black people, some can't even enter a store without grabbing attention as the white storeowners start to suspect that they might be shoplifters. This happens a lot apparently but I wouldn't know first hand.

One important thing to remember though is that racism always goes both ways. I know that a lot of swedes are racist, because it also shows as you log onto the internet where people can freely express their hate for other ethnicities under the protetion of being anonymous (I see this a lot online). The problem is that when you have white swedes being racist against black swedes, then it will cause a backlash effect and only serve to make the blacks resent the whites for that. It always goes both ways.

[Kjertesvein]

So when someone tells you that they are not racist, they might be lying to both you and themselves. A lot of people are prejudice, but in denial. I've talked to a lot of friends about this and they agree, and I've been told by some of my black friends in Sweden that almost everyone is racist to black people, some can't even enter a store without grabbing attention as the white storeowners start to suspect that they might be shoplifters. This happens a lot apparently but I wouldn't know first hand.

I think this is rather interesting bi-crux. Do you know that the store owner actually suspects a robbery, or is that an additional assumption you put on the fact that he is observing a difference?

Let's say you paint yourself entirely blue, like avatar, someone is going to look at you. Not necessarily because they hate you, but by the simple fact that it's uncommon.

The second point is more subtle. It's that fear of a political situation. Gays, women and blacks, the holy trinity of anti-discrimination politics. Keep in mind, as a store owner, you own the building, and it's your entire livelihood. There is a tension.

However, this is all speculations until the facts are on the table.

~Wille

[Nutsack]

I think this is rather interesting bi-crux. Do you know that the store owner actually suspects a robbery, or is that an additional assumption you put on the fact that he is observing a difference?

Let's say you paint yourself entirely blue, like avatar, someone is going to look at you. Not necessarily because they hate you, but by the simple fact that it's uncommon.

The second point is more subtle. It's that fear of a political situation. Gays, women and blacks, the holy trinity of anti-discrimination politics. Keep in mind, as a store owner, you own the building, and it's your entire livelihood. There is a tension.

However, this is all speculations until the facts are on the table.

~Wille

Of course what I'm talking about is subtle, hardly a suspicion based on truth. What happens is that a lot of swedes find it difficult to cleanse their minds of racism because they'd rather see the difference than they would the similarities in people. If I was blue, of course people would stare and treat me differently. The problem is again that they would not just notice that I am different, but emphasize completely on the difference instead of focusing on the similarities between us and try to find common ground to share human love and respect. I hate to pull this card, but you've all heard someone argue that racism is natural, that we are more or less xenophobic by nature. I don't wholeheartedly agree with that but I wouldn't be so quick to deny it either, we humans are very quick to judge - especially if we're not all uniform.

And I agree with Drustan who posted above. While I agree that minorities in the west hardly have the same opportunities as the majority, they often have equal political/social/legal rights. And creating institutions that favor minorities, or exclude others is still racist regardless. We shouldn't favor anyone on grounds of ethnicity. The real problem is that minorities are often overrepresentated in the lower classes of society which of course is also partly because of, yet more racism. I think it's crystal clear - our society is tainted with racism, and it's everywhere from age 0 to death, from the local police all the way up to the prime minister we have issues that have been tainted by it. It's going to take a long time to heal.

Just 50 years ago, real people, individuals just like you and me had to sit in the back of the bus because they were black. Who the cares if someone is black? I don't. It doesn't stop there, because when they got out of the bus they would have gotten their ass beat by some white police officer too. 50 years ago, that's not even a lifetime and innocent people were dying because of racism. Do you really believe that all of this is past, in just 50 years? On the surface it might have passed, but from being that drastic just half a century ago I'm pretty damn sure we aren't finished yet. We must pass more generations until this is gone.

[molonthegreat]

So when someone tells you that they are not racist, they might be lying to both you and themselves. A lot of people are prejudice, but in denial. I've talked to a lot of friends about this and they agree, and I've been told by some of my black friends in Sweden that almost everyone is racist to black people, some can't even enter a store without grabbing attention as the white storeowners start to suspect that they might be shoplifters. This happens a lot apparently but I wouldn't know first hand.

One important thing to remember though is that racism always goes both ways. I know that a lot of swedes are racist, because it also shows as you log onto the internet where people can freely express their hate for other ethnicities under the protetion of being anonymous (I see this a lot online). The problem is that when you have white swedes being racist against black swedes, then it will cause a backlash effect and only serve to make the blacks resent the whites for that. It always goes both ways.

Do they live in Ku Klux Klan town? I have never seen any such behavior or heard of it from black friends and while racism does exist I wouldn't call Swedes a racist people just because people on the internet are extreme.

[The Despondent Mind]

Sweden that almost everyone is racist to black people, some can't even enter a store without grabbing attention as the white storeowners start to suspect that they might be shoplifters

I believe that happens because of things like this

[Col. Tartleton]

I think this is interesting. Basically Racism is viewed as an extension of genetic materialism and collectivism.

Hard Racism is basically the following:

My ancestors were nobles. Therefore despite being unsuccessful myself I'm of the same value as them.

His ancestors were peasants. Therefore despite being successful he is of the same value as them.

Therefore his success is really my success, it's not fair, therefore he's taking something from me.

Alternatively you have soft racism like holding people to lower standards because you believe them to be inferior.

Finally there is "reverse racism" which is basically a reactionary response of the oppressed. This is what you see in the black community. They've bought into racism and while they won't accept consciously that they're inferior, they're make their whole lives about proving people wrong along racial lines rather than on individual lines. Rather than trying to be good for the sake of being good, they have the racial baggage of succeeded "as a black man."

[Matthias]

Institutional racism is a poor term in my opinion. Racism is a theory that has been discredited by science. There are few true "racists" anymore, though plenty of bigots.

Institutions cannot be "racist". What is being described is the disparate impact of the theory of racism historically (and in a very limited sense, continued racism) continues to have on certain populations, but it's not just through institutions, though that is what is specifically being described.

For example, if institutions reward wealthy people with connections, it will as a matter of course help certain populations that have benefitted historically from racism over others to gain wealth and connections.

But the wording is stupid to call it institutional racism, as it ignores the crux of the problem and misdefines "racism", an already confused enough word.

But as for the OP, I just have to say that your opinion is very naive, a result of your privilege more than anything else, that the historical (and few instances of present) racism still don't have huge impacts on society today.

We are only 50 or so years removed from racism being a widely accepted theory by much of the developed world, and the theory lasted for hundreds of years. The rippling effects will last for a long, long time.

And we still have bigotry to deal with, and a lot of the present bigoted ideas were created or influenced by racism.

[Vizvii]

I'd like to say that racism is just an umbrella term for a complex set of socio-economical types of discrimination, but that would be superficial on my part. I think (or hope) that pure institutionalised racism has mostly disappeared, but I doubt that racial bias will ever be eradicated.

Humans instinctively bond with others of similar features, and against those who they perceive as significantly different. We face difficulty empathising with people of different races, since we can't even distinguish their facial appearance. Even babies do.

[Drustan]

I find it incredibly ironic that a scholarship named after Martin Luther King offers assistence only to black students. It completely goes against the colour- blind society that he called for. Furthermore, America has an increasing 'Black middle class', without much change in the white working/ middle class. I'm not going to deny that African Americans often get it harder than whites, but affirmative action like this only seems to replace one problem with another. It should focus on alleviating poverty and creating opportunities for everyone while tackling racial discrimination through the courts of law, not just helping a certain race at the expense of another (a big example of this is Affirmative Action in college admissions).

As for racism, it seems at least in Britain that to an extent it exists, however I think it would be foolish to think that one group is mostly responsible. Where I live many of the businesses are owned by Asians, and I rarely see non- Asians being employed, despite often seeing people of various ethnic groups trying to find work in the area. It probably happens in other places, but because where I live is mostly Asian I don't see it.

[Col. Tartleton]

The only way to get rid of racism is to level the playing field and stop thinking in those terms.

The entire notion of trying to correct what is attributed to racism is racist. Black's don't need special treatment. That's racist.

What matters are your values and your merits, not your skin color. When the right discriminates against a minority it's the same thing as the left discriminating against the majority. It is not leveling the playing field. It's tilting the pin ball machine.

That's why conservatives are right on this issue. Yeah, maybe your average good old boy in the American south is a racist. So what, it's just bigotry. In the collegiate world I know they don't pledge blacks in the white fraternities if they can help it. There are openly black fraternities that effectively only take blacks. It's not exactly enlightened but the rules are the same for everyone. If social clubs want to self segregate, so what? That's their right. It's only an issue when the government discriminates against people. People are welcome to discriminate. It makes them jack asses. So what?

I'm white, I have definitely felt uncomfortable around black people. Not because I hate them. Not because I'm afraid of them. Not because I think they're all that different. There's still a weird divide there because of our history, and honestly, it's not going to go away any time soon.

[Nimthill]

The people who shout loudest that they're being discriminated for being black are usually those who dress themselves as thugs and 'gansta's'.

Protip: Don't dress like a thug if you don't want to be treated as one.