Too Much Debt (possible bug, not sure)

[Matterhorn]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but I recently installed RS 2.5 and when I play the Roman Campaign on BI, on turn two, I end up around 13,000 in debt (-13,000 in the treasury). Now, on earlier versions of this mod I wasn't in that much debt by turn 2.

Also, on previous versions I've had this similar problem where sometimes I would end up in debt early on, and other times I wouldn't, and there was nothing I could have done about it either way, so I figured it was a scripting issue and just kept restarting my game until I got one in which I had money to spend. So I was wondering if I am experiencing a similar problem as this.

Did this get changed in 2.5 and that's why I'm in so much debt? Or am I experiencing a bug or a scripting error?

Since so much early debt is just unfun to play, since you need money and the only way to get it is to disband armies and that's a bad idea when you have Carthage at your Northern front door and a rebellion in the south.

Thanks for any feedback.

[dvk901]

The start of RS2.5 is, I think, a bit harder than it was in RS2.1a. That said, there are a couple things you can do that can help. First, make sure your FL stays in Rome during the first rebellion. He will bring a large tax bonus to that city for as long as he has the trait 'Republican Dictator'. If you move him out of the city, the bonus is gone.

Also, raise taxes initially as high as you can as if this were an 'emergency' situation...because for the Romans, this WAS.

[Matterhorn]

Thanks. I don't normally like to raise taxes since it hurts long-run economic growth, since lower taxes means higher population growth means more people to tax, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that.

I also usually weasel myself out of fighting Hannibal during turn one, since I always lose that battle, and it's much easier (since the Romans really did this) to slowly wither his army size down and bogg him down in the North so I can finish him off later. Plus I don't want my entire northern army dead and leave Hannibal to roam rampant in the north. I guess, for the sake of money, that army is going to have to be sacrificed...

But just to be clear: This is built into the game to lose a lot of money in the first few turns, and is not a scripting error or a bug? I can play it if it's supposed to be there, but if it's not I'll reinstall and try again.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Thanks. I don't normally like to raise taxes since it hurts long-run economic growth, since lower taxes means higher population growth means more people to tax, but I guess there's nothing I can do about that.

I also usually weasel myself out of fighting Hannibal during turn one, since I always lose that battle, and it's much easier (since the Romans really did this) to slowly wither his army size down and bogg him down in the North so I can finish him off later. Plus I don't want my entire northern army dead and leave Hannibal to roam rampant in the north. I guess, for the sake of money, that army is going to have to be sacrificed...

But just to be clear: This is built into the game to lose a lot of money in the first few turns, and is not a scripting error or a bug? I can play it if it's supposed to be there, but if it's not I'll reinstall and try again.

Did look at this from a previous thread - and then tested it again myself carefully.

When you start a new campaign, look at the Finance scroll. You will see that your Army Upkeep is high and that you will generate a loss - which, if you do nothing, you will get as you have experienced.

The campaign is set up to be historically-based - in which case you lose the first battle at Lake Trasimene, get ambushed and wiped out by Hannibal. If that happens you will probably find that your costs plummet - and you can afford it.

So - at the end of every turn (until you are content) the last thing you should always do is check your Finances - and adjust as you desire. Certainly, and my existing test campaign was just the same when I re-started last week, you can increase taxes and afford everything. At no point in the 1st 20 years (where I am now) have I gone into debt.

In short - it's not 'built into the game' to lose money - what's there is pretty accurate. You either lose the army (and replace it) or you keep it - the end upkeep costs will be the same.

As you, I don't like the idea of being a 'twerp' like Flamminius Nepos and wait. But I also start like AF and bring the troops home - for things can be tricky when the Socii Rebellion occurs and losing Roma is quite possible (and thus any chance of recruiting any troops at all!). That's not entirely historical, but does place the Rome player under early stress and give them more of a 'game'.

[Simon_Bar-Kochba]

Yes becuz you got 3 big armies: one with hanibal, one on sicily with scipio the younger, and one in iberia with scipio the elder. It is impossible to keep those 3 armies and nit getting in to debt
Even if you have 2 armies remaining you got the rebbelion where you lose some more hardly needed denarii

[Disco]

Sounds like it's happening the way it was meant to. Even if your Nepos army gets killed to a man, you still have plenty of troops to fight off Carthage and the rebellion. You do have to move them around the map carefully so that pieces of your army don't get picked off. Your money will be in good shape in a few turns. I've gone into as much as 80k debt and as little as 7k debt and it worked out fine.