Aliunz; do they exist & in what manner?

[Amorphos]

Aliunz

do you believe in them? do they exist & in what manner?

I believe they belong to a mindset – the same as gods, demons, fairies and other visionary 'beings'. The descriptions of 'greys' match that of khu's or spirits [ancient Egyptian], so i am thinking that the human mind has a way of describing things of occult nature, and this has been similar throughout the ages.

But what if they do exist?

Perhaps they cannot physically get here due to the great distances between the stars and galaxies. Perhaps they cannot communicate with us for the same reason. Yet we have come so far in the last century, maybe we will find a way to communicate with them.

Some say that they already talk to us via visions etc? Indeed that they are sometime reborn on this planet so as to spread there wisdom [hence me lol], and that Jesus the gods and all the prophets were aliens!

If they arrived here, how would it change your philosophical and religious/ethical worldview?

[shenmueguru]

No, I don't, I believe it conflicts with my religion.

[Amorphos]

I suppose the idea of aliens actually existing kinda messes things up for all religions, although i think it would put them all in there rightful place.
I do think there must be aliens out there, but we wont and perhaps cannot meet them.
I would love to meet one! Imagine what you could talk about – well once you found a way to communicate.

[CrimsonKing0]

The closest things to aliens that we have found are viruses, since they don't match our current description of life. Furthermore, if there is life on other planets then the chances of them being intelligent enough to get here, much less build a civilization, is slim to none.

Of course if intelligent alien life did somehow arrive here, than the only change in my line of thought would be that we need to unify the human race so that we would be more prepared for a "war of the worlds" scenario.

[Amorphos]

Crimsonking0,

with so many billions of stars some that have planets with potential for life, there must be intelligent life – its almost impossible that there is not. I believe that once the conditions are met then intelligent life will arise – there is nothing special about this planet!

War of the worlds? I think not, as they would necessarily be more advanced than us – at least technologically. I would love to to know their philosophical take on life, and their politics, religions etc.

i think a unified earth against a more technologically advanced species would be futile! And in my mind anyways they would laugh at such an inane approach. I really hope that if we do meet aliens, then humanity will not look too overly stupid.

[Richard]

The closest things to aliens that we have found are viruses, since they don't match our current description of life. Furthermore, if there is life on other planets then the chances of them being intelligent enough to get here, much less build a civilization, is slim to none.

Of course if intelligent alien life did somehow arrive here, than the only change in my line of thought would be that we need to unify the human race so that we would be more prepared for a "war of the worlds" scenario.

The universe is apparently infinite (or at least large enough to have countless planets capable of supporting life. Although I'd have to see it to believe it, I think the possibility of life on other planets is at least possible.

[Amorphos]

Crimsonking0,

interesting bit of science, there are many theories though. there could be a galaxy with a thousand earth-like planets in it, then another with only a few or even none. Intelligent life is inevitable at some point in an evolution of a planet, the universe is designed for it – mostly.
we cannot look at the facts! We don't know them.
May i add that even if earths are rare, with such vast multiples as in the number of stars in the universe, there will still be many - perhaps millions or who knows billions!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

The Drake equation states that:
where:
N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which we might expect to be able to communicate at any given time
and
R* is the rate of star formation in our galaxy
fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne is average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life
fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc is the fraction of the above that are willing and able to communicate
L is the expected lifetime of such a civilization
_________________________________________________
everything has its opposite eh!

[Richard]

No, I don't, I believe it conflicts with my religion.

Ever hear of angels?

[shenmueguru]

Ever hear of angels?

So angels are aliens?

[Kanaric]

So angels are aliens?

I would, for one, say that they are various things. I wouldn't say they are aliens, rofl.

More like hallucinations, dreams, like seeing jesus in a stain on an underpass, etc.

[Brighdaasa]

While there may or may not be many planets suitable for intelligent life, the chance of one of those living in the same time span as here on earth are certainly dim. Life may have developed there and then withered again, or it will develop there later when mankind is extinct, they would need to be capable of space exploration at the exact right time, and travel in the perfect direction to stumble upon Earth. The chances of them meeting us would therefore seem quite small, although not impossible.

And even if they do visit earth, would we be able to discern them? For all we know they have "transcended" or something and be (in) electromagnetic waves or whatnot. The possibilities are endless...

[Jesus The Inane]

I think in a galaxy far away, "alians" do exist. But I don't think they have the technology that we do. Perhaps they are cavemen in this point in time, or maybe they do have the technology. Who knows? Whether they exist or not, it doesn't hurt my belief system. I'll still believed in the survival of the species, and moral relativism, and nihism -- because I'm sure that if there are elians, they too, don't have a clue why they were born.

I mean, I bet a God himself would not know why he exist... I think it would be interesting talking to an elian, specially if he knows more then you...

But I don't think that if elians exist they would prove Christianity wrong. Theres always the possibility that Jesus also went to the other planets spreading the Word. He just didn't tell us because we were not ready for it. Imagine that; elians actually proving the existance of Jesus when they say to a human; "WOW, you guys also were visited by Jesus?!"

[RZZZA]

I dunno if Aliens exist, but I know for sure that ATLiens exist...

[Lusted]

Given the amount of stars there are in the universe, let alone our own galaxy, the probability of planets existing around stars, the planets being the right distance away etc i'd have to say yes aliens do exist and in many varied forms. Though i do think if aliens arrive don Earth religion would be a bit screwed as suddenly theres a superior species that God(as an example) does not explain, and why would God create a superior species if we are his children?

[RZZZA]

Thats the good part of an alien invasion/visitation. As soon as we discover aliens, that would mean every religion on Earth would have to morph itself, would have to side step itself, to try and make it look like all along their religion foretold this and allowed for this, that these aliens are also God's creatures, but we are still his favorites so put that spiked kool aid down, there is still hope so no need to fear or fret, God still loves us, we are still his #1 inventions.

[Amorphos]

J-the-inane

Whether they exist or not, it doesn't hurt my belief system

no yet it would affect others! e.g. I would think that it would hurt all religions, as it takes away there personal connection to divinity – you cant have a Jesus on every planet [remember my ten questions!].
Perhaps they would know exactly why they were born! Or they may have a superior political system etc.

I mean, I bet a God himself would not know why he exist...

nice one! Would he indeed – great question to ask him if you ever meet eh.

But I don't think that if elians exist they would prove Christianity wrong.

not so,- Thats the whole point it would drastically change our religious perspective. If jesus was born on other planets they would not hear the same words or write the same bible because it would be altogether different.

Lusted,

I hope they don't have the same attitude as Christians! They may think their 'son of god' is the one true lord!!!

[CrimsonKing0]

with so many billions of stars some that have planets with potential for life, there must be intelligent life – its almost impossible that there is not.

You're right, and we are that intelligent life.

there is nothing special about this planet!

Except the fact that it is teaming with life, when all the other planets we've seen have none.

[Amorphos]

CK0

You're right, and we are that intelligent life

along with a billion others – and that i would say is a conservative estimate! The other planets we have seen are all in this solar system*, it would indeed be extremely unlikely to find two planets with life on in one solar system.

*apart from a few viewed at great distance through telescopes.

[CrimsonKing0]

along with a billion others – and that i would say is a conservative estimate!

Let's look at the facts shall we? On Earth, there are 100's of millions of species, but only one truly intelligent one, while the others act on instinct.

Now, you say it's a common occurance for planets like earth to exist?

Rare Earth equation

The following discussion is adapted from Cramer (2000). The Rare Earth equation is Ward and Brownlee's (W&B) riposte to the Drake equation. It calculates N, the number of Earth-like planets in the Milky Way having complex life forms, as:


N = N* x ne x fp x fpm x fg x fi x fc x fl x fm x fj x fme.


N* = number of stars in the Milky Way. This number is not well-estimated, because the Milky Way's mass is not well estimated. Moreover, there is little information about the number of very small stars. N* is at least 100 billion, and may be as high as 500 billion, if there are many low visibility stars.

ne = average number of planets in a star's habitable zone. For reasons given above, this habitable zone is fairly narrow, constrained by the requirement that the average planetary temperature be consistent with water remaining liquid over enough time to permit complex life to evolve. Thus ne =1 is likely to be a generous upper bound.


Hence we assume N* x ne = 5x1011. The rare Earth hypothesis, operationally speaking, asserts that the product of the other 9 Rare Earth equation factors listed below, all fractions, is no greater than 10-10 and could plausibly be as small as 10-12, in which case N could be as small as 0 or 1. Ward and Brownlee do not actually calculate the value of N, because the numerical values of quite a few of the factors below is conjectural at best.


fg = fraction of stars in the galactic habitable zone.

fp = fraction of stars in the Milky Way with planets. All known extrasolar planets orbit metal-rich stars, suggesting that planets may be peculiar to metal-rich stars.

fpm = fraction of planets that are rocky ("metallic") rather than gaseous.

fi = fraction of habitable planets where microbial life arises. W&B believe this fraction is unlikely to be small.

fc = fraction of planets where complex life evolve. For 80% of the time since life first microbial life appeared on the Earth, there was only bacterial life. Hence W&B argue that this fraction may be very small. Moreover, the Cambrian Explosion, when complex life really got off the ground, may have been triggered by extraordinary climactic and geological events.

fl = fraction of the total lifespan of a planet during which complex life is present. This fraction cannot be high because complex life takes so long to evolve.

fm = fraction of habitable planets with a large moon. The Earth's moon is doubly unusual. First, the other rocky planets in the Solar System either have no satellites (Mercury and Venus), or have tiny satellites that are captured asteroids (Mars). Second, the Moon as a fraction of its planet is much larger than any other satellite in the Solar System. If the giant impact theory of the Moon's origin is correct, fm will be small.

fj = fraction of planetary systems with large Jovian planets. This fraction could be large.

fme = fraction of planets with a sufficiently low number of extinction events. W&B argue that the low number of such events the Earth has experienced since the Cambrian explosion may be unusual. Such a low number again requires a very stable planetary system, with outer planets having nearly circular orbits, and no gravitational perturbations from passing stars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

I don't claim to understand all this, but from what I gather it means there are very few Earth-like planets out there.

[Kanaric]

Their was a poll that like over 80% of the people in the US believe in aliens and somewhere around that high percentile people believe in UFOs.

I "believe" in UFOs but I dont think they are aliens, hehe. They are usually government vehicles if they are unexplained. Thats probably why such a high percentage say they belive in that.

I do find it funny though that projects like blue book said ufos dont exist. They have many cases of completely unexplainable events that were considered by them most likely UFOs. If they have found several you would think they would say they DO exist. All they needed was one.


I believe aliens do exist, obviously, and in various manners and stages in technology. Their, for example, are stars and planets as little as a million years older than ours. So obviously they could easily be a million years more technologically advanced.

Also I dont believe in the nasa idea that they need water and a earth-like planet to exist as well. If the universe is infinite you can't limit your thinking to only how things are here.