How do you play Sylvania?

[Cyricist]

Seriously. I've tried starting as Sylvania about half a dozen times now, and I just have no idea what to do. On turn three, a Stirland stack sieges my left-most town (forgot the name), like clockwork. Full stack, with some high quality, expensive troops. Same turn, a Dwarven stack sieges Drakenhof, and another Stirland stack walks into view, with the clear intention of helping siege Drakenhof. By turn 6, at least one stack from Wissenland is politely knocking at the door of the Blood Keep.

I've tried many ways to survive this onslaught, but nothing has really worked, because even if you beat these three stacks that come calling on turn three... it's not over. They come back at light speed. Within like two or three turns, full stacks show up again and again. I honestly have no idea what to do. Once, I managed to survive long enough to have killed SEVEN FULL STACKS from Stirland, two full stacks from the Dwarves, and one and a half stacks from Wissenland, while defending Blood Keep. Kept all my places. It was intense.

Then Ostermark showed up with a full stack, and sieged my top right town. At that point I just threw my hands into the air and gave up.

What are you supposed to do? I mean, it's not even that these are full stacks, but... the units are all at least moderately experienced, and some of them are super powerful. Like, one stack has Witch Hunters and Warrior Priests of Sigmar. Seriously!? How do I even contend with that, this early in the game?

[Kahvipannu]

You might wanna check quide http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=406339 if it will have any help for you.

Sylvania can be tough, specially by the time when crusade is called upon you, prepare to lose settlements, a lot during the start of campaign. You just need to reassemble, and take those settlements back, abandon/sack settlements, and also try to expand as much as possible. Losing settlement or two isn't end of the campaign. I find most fun when I'm on a edge of destruction, and I manage just barelly to turn tables and gain upper hand.

[Ichon]

I find its best to simply defend Blood Keep. In the early part of the game its laid siege to repeatedly but in my campaigns only about 1l4 of those sieges actually lead to an assault. Usually AI walks away if you have a strong defense there.

Otherwise by turn 3 you should already have gained 1-2 towns with fairly light losses and have your armies ready- you can lose just about every city except Drakenhof in the early game. It sucks to lose Blood Keep but I imagine its not necessary, its just nice to have a 2nd front eventually.

Dwarves don't have a good answer for Vampire cavalry or the catapults. Stirland and Ostermark were the most trouble for me initially as they have more balanced armies and the halberdiers chews through just about everything Sylvania has in any quantity that early. If find myself using Vampire cavalry to eliminate Empire archer/crossbow then retreating behind zombies that engage front lines of the Empire(since they can stretch wide they can engage 2-3 enemy units)- its important to mix in some skeletons with the zombies to give them more staying power while I used the Empire units like Swordsmen that Sylvania has access to and Vampires to kill enemy cavalry and then either trap general(sometimes it takes too long as your zombies die faster) or flank and try to rout the Empire unit on at least 1 flank. Usually you'll have high losses in numbers but of relatively cheap units. As game progresses Sylvania gets stronger and stronger though economy is always a threat and sack/abandon cities is almost a necessity. I usually move into Dwarven holds in mountains whilst devastating Stirland and Averland. I try to hold Blood Keep than invade Reikland and Tabalcland for the richer cities there and fewer threads from Orcs or Chaos.

[Cyricist]

Hmm. So it sounds like I'm just not being aggressive enough. It also may be that Sylvania isn't for me, I suppose. I'm realizing that Sylvania takes a lot of losses in their battles, albeit of cheap units, like you said, but... I don't know. I guess training units like Carn Wraiths and Drakenhof Guard at the start isn't the way to go? I should recruit a ton of zombies and skeletons instead, and utilize my cavalry more?

I've never tried going on the offensive in the very beginning. I mean, I know I start with decent sized armies, but it's just that knowing by turn 3, there will be three separate stacks in my territory (two from Stirland, one from the Dwarves) has always made me turtle pretty hard, trying to hold all my cities. Should I just take losses of cities, and sustain one strong army where the cavalry is gaining experience? I mean, Drakenhof and Blood Keep are both really good, well fortified places that are fairly easy to defend in actual sieges. I'd rather not lose either. The thing is, if I lost my two other towns, my income would tank and I'd be in the red for a long time. I'm just not sure how to start the game, I guess.

I wasn't thinking of Sylvania as a cavalry faction, though, to be honest. I was thinking of them as an infantry race, given all their cheap infantry options. I suppose it's the "hammer and anvil" thing though, right? Tie everyone up with skeletons and zombies, and then charge Mannfred and your other cavalry around, slamming into people from the rear, routing everyone without taking many losses from the units that matter. That makes sense... I don't know. In theory, I feel like I know what to do when considering Sylvania. I just can't handle the sheer amount of units they throw my way. I mean, when the unit from Stirland comes calling, that has Warrior Priests, Witch Hunters, Helhunten Guard, and some other exceptionally good units, it's just... wtf! What answer could I give to that?

I know Krell is a hero you get from taking the Brass Keep, but that may as well be a million miles away, given how hard it'd be for me to get an army up there to free him. On a side note, can anyone tell me if Krell's unique units he comes with can be recruited after you free him? Or can they be retrained? They're like undead chaos units, such as undead marauders and whatnot, so I wasn't too sure.

EDIT: Oh, also, Mannfred starts with a good amount of Chivalry. Should I keep him chivalric or should I get him some dread, instead? I think Dread would be better as he's a cavalry unit, and could break people more easily and make them route... but it's hard to turn down someone who starts with like 5+ points into chivalry... though I guess helping my undead units to not route doesn't really make any sense, given that they are immune to morale...

[SinerAthin]

Chivarly is pretty useless on a Sylvanian army, as said before.

And in TW games, cavalry is pretty overpowered so they'll always be the key to any game you have them in.

Simply tie up the enemy armies with cannonfodder troops and obliterate them with your vampire cavalry.


Heavy losses are unavoidable, as mentioned before. The only way to do it is to survive early on. The enemy has superiors numbers AND superior quality on their troops, so you just gotta survive the scripted stack rush; then move on to fight on.

But be wary of going too much east into the mountains. You really don't want to get tied up fighting the orks.

[BigHairyMelon]

Also take and keep Mordheim, when you start getting trade between your cities, you will get so much money from Mordheim, if you lose it your treasury will feel the price heavily. Even if it is under siege all surrounding settlements will lose a lot of money.

[Cyricist]

I don't know if I'm just not good enough at utilizing cavalry properly, or what, but this isn't working out exactly as planned. However, I'm trying and (somewhat) succeeding at something here. I decided to hold Blood Keep against Wissenland (giant stack of skeletons/archers/zombies, so they are afraid to attacK), Castle Drakenhof, and Mordheim. After I beat the three initial stacks they sent at me, one of them tried to take Mordheim and failed, but they killed over half of the rebel stack defending it. So I gathered up my full army except for a garrison in Castle Drakenhof, and took Mordheim. In the process, I lost Templehof and uhh... the other town that I start with. I forget the name.

I'm not sure if holding two castles and one town is going to be enough. I feel I should be playing more aggressively, but I just don't know how. There are plenty of giant stacks of enemy units. Mostly from Stirland... not sure what Stirland's deal is, but my god, it's like Stirland is its own Empire. I thought I was the one who was supposed to have the endless waves of infantry to throw at my enemies!

So yeah. Trying to just hold these three for now. Thanks for the advice guys, it has definitely helped. I also noticed that mercenaries don't cost anything to hire initially, and just have an upkeep, so I hired the full roster of mercs. That was a big help too. But yeah, I've mostly just been training zombies/skeleton infantry, with all the cavalry I can get. Haven't made any catapults yet, I was thinking I'd nail my own infantry, since I have so many of them... dunno.

The only non-cavalry unit I made, apart from crappy skeletons, is the Drakenhof Guard. Those guys are pretty damn good. Judging by their stats, they're about average greatswords, but I guess I've just watched skeletons and zombies flailing ineffectually for a while now. Watching the Drakenhof Guard go to town on a Free Company sword unit was awesome. Screw those guys. Get off my wall!

[Kahvipannu]

Haven't made any catapults yet, I was thinking I'd nail my own infantry, since I have so many of them... dunno.

You mean your "cannonfodder" Tie enemy uber units (WP, WH, etc) or stack enemy army up with your cheap undead infantry, and bomb them to the hell, with Sylvania it works great, since your troops are unroutable.. And screaming skulls do a lot of morale damage.

I really don't like to use cannonfodder in my games, but Sylvania is one of few exceptions I have, feels like mandatory..

And yeah, if you can, take Mordheim in every game, it's way too good to be given to Empire. Personally I'm not biggest fan of how Sylvania play, but I still end up playing with them now and then, becouse the challenge is great at start, it's instant action, and who doesn't like to those undead troops.

[BigHairyMelon]

A really good way of defending places, like blood keep is to retreat to the plaza and hold them in tight corridors. When you have some screaming skull catapults put them behind your men and make sure they have a clear line of sight, the enemy stack bunches together and cant get through because one or two of your units will be holding the street, then rain screaming skulls upon them and their morale will fall very quickly, if you can flank the enemy with some of your infantry all the better. Instead of aiming to kill the enemy aim to crush their moral and then if you have cavalry run them down. I find the only units of the empire that cause serious damage are either their knights, if allowed to charge, in siege battles they are not much of a problem. And also their halberd infantry they can and will rip through your skeletons.

In city defense do the same but i always pick the street the enemy are likely to advance up, put some men at the entrance but with enough room for the enemy to advance onto the plaza. Then when they are on the plaza charge their flanks with some more men. This also kills their morale.

[Cyricist]

Hey guys, had another question. I was playing Ostland and joined a crusade against Sylvania. When we were sieging Castle Drakenhof, I noticed that Sylvania had a general named Walach, who was a Blood Dragon. His bodyguard unit was a Blood Dragon unit. Is that a general that I could get if I were playing Sylvania, or is that someone who will only spawn for the AI controlling Sylvania?

[BigHairyMelon]

Hey guys, had another question. I was playing Ostland and joined a crusade against Sylvania. When we were sieging Castle Drakenhof, I noticed that Sylvania had a general named Walach, who was a Blood Dragon. His bodyguard unit was a Blood Dragon unit. Is that a general that I could get if I were playing Sylvania, or is that someone who will only spawn for the AI controlling Sylvania?

You should get him when you get Blood Dragons.

[Cyricist]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the quick response. By the way, the "create a choke point and bomb it with screaming skull catapults" thing has worked fairly well, for me. The only problem I ran into is that one of the Stirland stacks was like 70% archers, and rained hell on my skeletons before they came in. Wasn't much I could do about it, except spread out and try to avoid as much fire as I could, until they ran out of ammunition. On the bright side, Mannfred has awesome necromancy, so I raised over half my army after the battle.

[pojansetan]

i just start as slyvania campaign.. only play on M/H difficulty. for the 1st multiple fulls stack from dwarf and empire, i like to kill their army by using necromach (sorceress of vampire) unit... they are very costly in upkeep (up 3000 per turn) but this 10 sorceress can kill 50-70% of enemy army before i send mass of zombie and skeleton to fight the rest. and also they have very long range than any empire crossbowmen range shoot.

my suggestion is to use sorceress rather than rely on cavalry unit. oh yes, the bright wizard are very annoying..i wipe them first using calvary charge

[Ayamo]

I also have some troubles playing with Sylvania, esp. surviving that onslaught. So everything you're building are skeleton/zombie unites that you hurl against them, while keeping a couple of necrarchs (if you have them) or cavalry units to attack from the rear?

With the Empire, I usually try with a smaller, but upgraded/elite army to hold off against the enemies ... but Sylvania really doesn't have the time to build such a decent army it seems.

[Cyricist]

Yeah... I guess. I personally don't have any Necrarchs, and there's only so many cavalry charges you can keep doing in every battle, before the losses stack up and you get into a fight where you're not going to have any cavalry left. That some other people talk about Sylvania and "taking around 15 provinces by turn 20" is absolutely mind-boggling to me. It's almost like I'm not even playing the same game they are.

[Ayamo]

That some other people talk about Sylvania and "taking around 15 provinces by turn 20" is absolutely mind-boggling to me. It's almost like I'm not even playing the same game they are.

I had the same thought ...

Now, but seriously ... how do you survive the rush of elite armies after elite armies with only skeleton/zombie armies when also trying to build a somewhat decent army yourself?

[pojansetan]

my necrach just die on turn 18..it so hell to fight endless battle when Crusader calling on drakenhorf. is someone know how can i hire again any new sorceress? zzz...until nw,i only just taking Mordhiem while struggle to defend Blood Keep. im playing on medium/Hard difficulty, but it is really tough to play this vampire faction. how can someone taking 15 region?

[pojansetan]

zombie just a meat shield for arrow and cavalry charge from enemy...let zombie fight until their elite unit become exhausted. my tactic like this.

1) make 2 stack each 3/4 full of cheaper skeleton units consist of upgrade armour zombie+archer+spear+light skeleton. at least must hv one unit cavalry
2)attack enemy 1st with your both army, dont let they siege city. choose a higher ground for battle.. a higher terrain give missile unit more range for my necromach.
3) send zombie march to the enemy as meat shield and exhausted them while my necromach burn 50-60% enemy. sometime enemy general get burn too by her dark magic
4) then, i send light+spear skeleton march to kill the rest

if enemy have bright wizard, kill him 1st before he burn your army to the ground. after the battle, i will replenish immediately my army with a new fresh one. necromach very effective against any unit including cavalry. BUT.....

now, my necromach is gone..i think i need a new tactic to overcome Empire again

[SinerAthin]

I don't think Necroarchs are female actually, more like old men turned to dust and rot

[Ichon]

I don't use Necroarchs at the start at all, too expensive and if they fail your army is lost. I prefer the catapults/vampire combo with zombie/skeleton anvil. On turn 1 you can siege 1-2 cities though laying siege to 2 is risky since only the mercenaries and vampires have the range and dividing them makes victory tense if you don't micro the cavalry extremely well. It should be easy to get at least 1 city by turn 2 however as rebels will attack out of their city on their turn. Now you have 1 more turn to move before having to return towards Drakenhof. At minimum that should be 1 further region.

Don't spent alot of money on buildings the first few turns, recruit more armies as that will benefit you more. Don't just wait for defense. The more cities you can capture further away from Drakenhof distracts Empire armies and AI sometimes lays siege and then leaves without a battle saving you time and units. If Crusade goes to Drakenhof early its tough no question, probably the toughest of any faction if you try to fight it off because Empire is so close. I've never had that happen though so I can only imagine.

Then the first onslaught of the Empire is the trickiest and its important to have Manfred commanding so your army is resurrected. Keep building units in Drakenhof and put them under the next best general and use that to advance on other cities to encourage sally attack so you can expand even while defending. I don't normally start that until around turn 10 though but with production of 2-3 cities and income from 5-6 cities you should be able to defend against the Empire though some of it depends on when Dwarves attack as the toughest for me was when winning one battle only to be attacked same turn by another enemy army.

Vampire cavalry were the key for me as with their speed they can outrun most opponents, it does get old to repeat charge but it is effective on most Empire units other than Halberdiers which must be crushed with catapults, skeleton archers, and killing Empire general to get a rout. I do get the graveguard halberdiers after catapults first as they help with Empire cavalry and defending the catapults. I find the skeleton cavalry almost useless except as a distraction. I use them only if no other units are available(usually by turn 10 max production is being used). Necroarch I produced nearly last of all the special units but they can make the army defending Drakenhof have a few less good units which can be added to offensive armies to expand more quickly. I find it best to pick a single Empire faction and relentlessly attack them. Stirland is usually easiest for me then Talabecland and attacking Dwarves only after they send an army as with Sylvania trying to siege assault Dwarven settlements is a waste of resources. Best to let them empty of garrison and then attack. Sack and raze Empire cities you can't hold(there will be many early on) because its more important to crush a couple Empire factions quickly to get some breathing room. Once that is accomplished Empire becomes much easier and usually there will be Blood Dragons etc available as well and the main challenge is Crusades or fighting Chaos or Dark Elf armies which for me Sylvania has tough roster to match.