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Thread: CA Modding Summit

  1. #141

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    I am reading all these questions and questions and I get dizzy myself as a modder. I do not think this should be the purpose of this summit. To shoot with countless questions "How do I do this, How do I do that".
    Experienced modders already know the procedures of their specialty and if not, they know how to search the available information in this forum.
    I really do not remember many things if you ask me. Whenever I want to do something for my mod, I search, I test, I try and then I implement. I do not read manuals or foolproof info. True Modders are self taught.
    I'm all for screwing up and learning on my own...provided I have the tools to do that screwing up.

    If the community never invented symphony or PFM - learning how to mod would be like trying to learn computer programming without a computer, but first having to learn how to build a computer first. I wish I could learn on my own how to have fixed the sound issue in the mods. Thankfully, crux didn't just laugh at us all and say "learn on your own!!111", but shared his knowledge and his tools. Same for the creators/continuing developers of PFM.

    It's a shame the community had to figure out how to make tools for the game. Or should we learn how to make those on our own too? Thank goodness those that did learn how shared with us who aren't so gifted.

    I can search and such, but without the tools to put the info in place...what's the point? Thank goodness for PFM, but I think if a company is truly going to be mod friendly - these tools need to come from them. Put all the we don't support, blah blah legal crap in there, but just put the tools out.

    So I think one question is - "How will CA make their games truly more mod-friendly?" It's one thing to say it, another to actually build games and tools that demonstrate it.
    Last edited by Seyal; June 07, 2012 at 05:06 PM.

  2. #142
    Plumo's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Read this a couple of times until you grasp it:

    Just to be clear on expectations: this is an opportunity for us to explain to you why things are how they are and get some key modders a glimpse into how we do things, and why we do them the way we do. That information will be useful, no doubt.

    Funny it is called a modding summit...

  3. #143

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Download DMUC beta 8 update 32.
    Play it.

    .
    Maybe this sounds cool, but does not answer my question.

    Vert much like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRiOVgSDX-o
    Last edited by Bethencourt; June 07, 2012 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #144

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Is this an employement scam ?? get them in .. and they never LEAVE! CA are looking for quality builders.

    If CA are willing to sell M2TW source code then that will help modders and TW in multiples.

    R
    oOo

    Rome 2 refugee ...

    oOo

  5. #145
    Miles
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    They will lock all the modders who show up in a cellar and have them work on dlc for the rest of their life.

  6. #146
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by .Mitch. View Post
    This needs to be posted, re-posted and re-posted again every time someone posts saying Darth Vader, Radious or any other of the common modding names get said should go to a modding summit.

    About 0.01% of Artifex's on this website know what needs to be known to advance modding beyond where it is given CA help, and I'm almost entirely sure none of them will be spending a large sum of money to come to the UK to go to this.

    I can only begin to cringe at the image of this being hosted to the masses of the internet on something like Skype too, the amount of questions being asked about topics that are either already answered or questions that are inevitably retarded would be unparalleled.

    If CA's intentions are to advance modding beyond where it is, they need not go through the hassle of this, they just need to have a few conversations with a handful of people, or do it themselves.

    Alas if anything this summit would be an answer as to why modding is getting limited and not a solution to it. People need to stop having wild delusions about this modding business and CA, this is a multi-million dollar company with a publisher who is one of the biggest names in the business, these people know what is required to make this game or any of their future ones moddable to us, and it's not in talking to a minority of their fan base in the modders housed here.
    I agree that we have two categories of modders : the first one represent modders who are able to research about how game work and/or are able to create mod tool and the second one represent modders who use mod tools to create mods.

    If the first category must be present to the Modding Summit, I think that some modders from the second category must be present too.
    Modders like Darth Vador have a long experience of mod, they can tell what they could need in term of moddability, the problems they have to face, etc.


    Of course, this will also depend of summit agenda.
    To what CraiTW said, I didn't really understand what they want to do.
    Is it a "technical" summit to really discuss about game process (how CA create campaign map or how game engine "work") ?
    Is it a "public relation" summit to explain to modders why they can not mod some parts of the game ?
    Is it a "first contact" summit to disccus about actual problem with modding and what modders need in the future ?


    I think we have to wait for more informations from CA.
    CraigTW wrote that he will post some more details "next couple of weeks".

    So : Wait and See


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  7. #147
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    I raised the same questions several times already. We need more info from Cragi about the agenda and organization of the summit, and what kind of preparation we can do.

    To me, having tools creator from the community is important, if they can get information, or get good effective contacts with CA team, so they can then fill the gaps in their understanding of the formats, and finally make the tools we need.

    Having mod creators (consumer if the before mentionned tools) is also important, because there are plenty of "walls", things which seems to be moddable in the db / startpos, but don't seem to be working. So mod creators can explain the problem, and see in conjunction with CA and tool makers if there's way to solve the issues.

    I think it's not possible in one summit to solve everything: we won't all come with a laptop and TW games installed on it with all the tools, show the problems, get an immediate answer, implement it, test it, and the day after we come back we all have new perfect versions of all our mods!

    What I really hope we can get is a renewed collaboration between CA and modders / tool creators, where we can manage to put in place a new working process, with good communication channel.

    The "ask CA thread for db/XML" editing was a good start, and I think the best we could have is an renewal/improvment of this concept. I hope we can create some "personnal" links between the most active modders and CA team members (perhaps email exchange, or dedicated forum, or wiki, or whatever), and this can be maintain for a long time (not just a few weeks), and thanks to that we could get faster and better answer to all the tiny problems we have.

    This would require some real commitment from CA team. We know that the modders can be very commited, can CA do the same? Can they find some members who are willing to play by the rule, and will their management let them? This would require that some members are ready to spend some time reading the question, and perhaps dig for the information in some of CA documentation, or even source code.

    This summit could also be the opportunity to explore new collaboration models. I strongly believe in a model where CA could focus on engine improvment / patch, and relly on the community for contents.

    I take again the campaign map as an example. Perhaps CA cannot give the tools ready to use for licence issue. Perhaps they don't want to make a DLC themselves because it takes too much time;
    But what if we put in place a small mixed team CA - modders? CA explain what they need to make a new campaign map. Modders do the research, the design, perhaps can use some tools to prepare the work, then CA use its internal tool to generate a map, with everything we cannot do ourselves in, but nothing more. And the we do the rest.

    For example, we know how to place new starting armies, set religion, etc. So we can give CA an "image" with the new borders (or a text files with coordinates of the border if they explain in what format they need it), they generate the regions and a startpos with only "empty" region, and then we could add the religions, moving armies, etc.

    And when it's finished, it's released by CA.

    Such collaboration between CA and the community would be great. But this requires a lot of good will on both side.

    This kind of idea was smartly used by Paradox when they designed Europa Universalis 2 for instance. I beta tested EU1 and EU2. After EU1, before starting EU2, they approached the testers from EU1 with a proposal: We have a script system for events. We explain how it works. How, each tester can send us a bunch of historical events for his own country, and if they are interesting, we'll check them and integrate them in the game.
    With this, EU2 was shipped with dozens of historical events, even for the most obscure countries. This was possible only because of the involvment of the community, Paradox team would have had a lot of difficulties to do that alone.

  8. #148
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Darth Mod Ultimate Commander? Didn't know it worked on Shogun 2
    Heh. Truth is I doupt it works for S2TW
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  9. #149
    Antalis's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    I hope this summit will bring back the golden age of modding, like it was in RTW and MTW2 times. This is a good move from CA. Keep on with this CA. Help all the talented modders here to create campaignmaps and full concersions, if thats possible. I hope in a year we will look back to this summit and the effort from CA and say that most modding dreams became true.

  10. #150

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Plumo View Post
    Read this a couple of times until you grasp it:

    Just to be clear on expectations: this is an opportunity for us to explain to you why things are how they are and get some key modders a glimpse into how we do things, and why we do them the way we do. That information will be useful, no doubt.

    Funny it is called a modding summit...
    sounds like there will be a pr person adressing the crowd and explain why all their questions will never be answered. THAT is not something worth paying a flight for. they can do that just as well with a written post on a forum. modders need help, not be told the reasons why they can't get help.

    if the people attending get a set of tools it would be amazing, if they are just told that what they want will never happen and as a result they abandon all their efforts, ...

  11. #151

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Sounds like a trap to me!...

    Craig: "Walk ahead of us into this darkly lit room modders"

    *door slams shut*

    Craig: "UNLEASH THE WEREBEAVERS!!"

    *screams* *gurgling*

  12. #152
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    With all the negative feedback CA got from their expensive pre order clan DLC, I can't imagine they'd shoot themseles in the left foot now the right is off...

    They can't ask modders to pay for flights just to tell them "thanks for coming, we can now tell you you won't get any help nor tool, good bye".

  13. #153
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesticide View Post
    ill be blunt and say my gut feeling is its just another a PR stunt, and i want modders to think about this before attending as it might be just that they will simply waste a lot of your and their money and time flying there, fancy venue, food/drinks telling you the same answers to pretty much everything you already asked them in the past for anyway which is no we cant do it, with a fancy reasoning not to be shared with the public as you will have to sign a NDA.

    They will probably also make a video from it and then use that video to promote their undying, always getting better, best mod support ever, brainstormed by the modders themselves, for their next game they will announce soonish.

    Just think about it for a second, why would sega trow ANY money at this at all if it doesnt have a pr/sales benefit. Any higher up manager who would have to approve this would have had 2 things on his mind, expenses and benefits. If its not a PR/sales benefit , there should be no expenses, hence he would have suggested conference calls himself.

    Unless CA is willing to cover some airfare/hotel of these awesome people who have volunteered to spend so much time into these games over the past few years thats my gut feeling based on what happened in the past. I have some understanding of how the industry works, i do not doubt some CA employees their sincerity but lets not be fooled by pretending we do not know what the bottem line is for some top execs.
    Who works in the middle of sunny July? I guess the atmosphere is laid-back, warm and relaxed, which will be an advantage, as opposed to in the middle of a work schedule. Think of the guys at your work place, the people who stay long and work during vacations, these are the dedicated souls who will meet you. Relaxed and dedicated; what is there to fear - but success?

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  14. #154
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    With all the negative feedback CA got from their expensive pre order clan DLC, I can't imagine they'd shoot themseles in the left foot now the right is off...

    They can't ask modders to pay for flights just to tell them "thanks for coming, we can now tell you you won't get any help nor tool, good bye".
    I dunno.

    Just to be clear on expectations: this is an opportunity for us to explain to you why things are how they are and get some key modders a glimpse into how we do things, and why we do them the way we do. That information will be useful, no doubt.
    This pretty much explains what to expect.

    I would say that Modders who attend need to be relatively forthright and expect useful answers and even possible solutions and to politely push this. To simply go there, be given cups of tea (which is nice) and jam scones to be told, `There`s nothing we can do and here`s why- Bye.` Isn`t going to be worth the tea. And scones.

    Maybe there`s a consolation prize.

    I`m still trying to think what the overall goal of all this is for the modders themselves (to say there`s nothing that can be done?) But I`m not a modder, so you guys probably know the point of it more than I.

    Good luck.

  15. #155
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    If they say why can't be done in a certain way, then they can say how could be done in another way perhaps? In either case assisting seems important. Not in person but at least on-line. Look, we already have the hands pretty tightly tied with respect of modding, so what's to lose if you connect by Internet or live near and go there? They are not saying people should hop in planes and go there, why everyone seems to imply that??? In any case I don't see anyone from outside England and perhaps France really taking a plane to go there.
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  16. #156

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Thank you very much CA for doing this!
    It's always nice to see devs willing to support and be involved in modding communities.

  17. #157
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    In either case assisting seems important. Not in person but at least on-line. Look, we already have the hands pretty tightly tied with respect of modding, so what's to lose if you connect by Internet or live near and go there?
    I agree.

    It just would be a shame if someone like Darth went to all the trouble to go there and found Ca to be... lacking.


  18. #158
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Good one Humble Warrior
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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  19. #159
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    With all the negative feedback CA got from their expensive pre order clan DLC, I can't imagine they'd shoot themseles in the left foot now the right is off...

    They can't ask modders to pay for flights just to tell them "thanks for coming, we can now tell you you won't get any help nor tool, good bye".
    CA wouldnt do that man. They are not EA.

    Craig said and I am paraphrasing... the guests will be shown how CA does things. So perhaps we will get to see what programs are used to make the map. I am already certain a programmed developed by a third party is used which compiles all the files and spits the information back out. Not easy for modders to work with or try and figure out what program was used.

  20. #160
    Hellhound1's Avatar *Knock Knock*
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    It just would be a shame if someone like Darth went to all the trouble to go there and found Ca to be... lacking.
    I find your lack of faith in CA.. disturbing.

    It'll be really interesting to see if CA are open to making their games more modable. I suppose the outcome of the day will decide if CA are up for it.

    Protip for anyone attending - bring up skyrim and modding.

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