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Thread: Spirituality Through Other Means

  1. #21

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    The thing is though they really dont always end up at the same beliefs, a great deal in common mind.
    Nirvana, non-duality, karma, dharma ~ all the same though naturally varying according to the given school.
    I’m just saying that religions all have a teleology, one based on some manner of assumed and/or learned end. If you don’t think you know the answers, then what does one base a religion upon?

    Buddhism can be coupled with religions though. Look at Shinto-Buddhism.
    I agree with your general sentiment, but Islam can be coupled with other religions, even Christianity can [e.g. voodoo]. I admit that it was/is far more flexible on the matter though. I wish Christianity had been less exclusive, then we’d know a great deal more about our own roots and beliefs.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  2. #22
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    What about esoteric groups? Do they necessarily worship a higher power?
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus View Post
    Yes, one can either follow the ''New-Age'' crap or rely on eastern/western philosophical thought
    Bumping an old thread,i know,but why you do you call it crap?


  4. #24
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzin View Post
    Bumping an old thread,i know,but why you do you call it crap?
    Usually because it is a bunch of cobbled together nonsense based on nothing.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Usually because it is a bunch of cobbled together nonsense based on nothing.
    Please explain why is it a bunch of cobbled together nonsense?
    I for one truly believe in the energy from the cosmos and that we're connected to it


  6. #26
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzin View Post
    Please explain why is it a bunch of cobbled together nonsense?
    I for one truly believe in the energy from the cosmos and that we're connected to it
    Well thats great for you but you've no reason or evidence to believe it, it doesn't really mean anything, its just something you've read or made up and I'm sure it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and thats really nice but it doesn't make it any less ridiculous I'm afraid.

    Keep focusing on that warm fuzzy feeling I'd say.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Well thats great for you but you've no reason or evidence to believe it, it doesn't really mean anything, its just something you've read or made up and I'm sure it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and thats really nice but it doesn't make it any less ridiculous I'm afraid.

    Keep focusing on that warm fuzzy feeling I'd say.
    The chances of you saying it doesnt exist are the same as saying it exists


  8. #28
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Oh good lord really? No given proximal and reinforcing contributory influences in my life the chances are not the and chance and probability theories in the way I suspect you are trying to use them are poor reasons for belief, ignorance is a poor substitute for reason.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Oh good lord really? No given proximal and reinforcing contributory influences in my life the chances are not the and chance and probability theories in the way I suspect you are trying to use them are poor reasons for belief, ignorance is a poor substitute for reason.
    ...what? pardon my lack of english but can you explain that again please?
    Last edited by The Glorious Moldovan; July 02, 2012 at 04:24 PM.


  10. #30
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    It's a bunch of crap because it works with ambiguous and polysemic concepts within our mind in that sense there's no reference forms, there's no internal logic and there's not a sigle boundary between the different concepts brought forward(classical mix of scientific and metaphysical definitions of mind, soul, body and spirituality).

    In that sense the definitions New Age ''brings forward'' are so wide and irrestrictive that they can as well be connected to any phenomena, when a system of beliefs, a cosmology, works in that way one can discard it rather easily.

    That which explains all will more than usually explain nothing.
    Last edited by Claudius Gothicus; July 03, 2012 at 07:46 PM.

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  11. #31
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus View Post
    It's a bunch of crap because it works with ambiguous and polysemic concepts within our mind in that sense there's no reference forms, there's no internal logic and there's not a sigle boundary between the different concepts brought forward(classical mix of scientific and metaphysical definitions of mind, soul, body and spirituality).

    In that sense the definitions New Age ''brings forward'' are so wide and irrestrictive that they can as well be connected to any phenomena, when a system of beliefs, a cosmology, works in that way one can discard it rather easily.

    That which explains all will more than usually explain nothing.

    And the fact that there's a bloke called God that created the world is not an absurd thought?


    At least New Age tries to bring forward scientific evidence instead of hanging off the word of a 2000 year-old book. It seems far more logical that any Abrahamic religion.
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  12. #32
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by The Illusionist View Post
    And the fact that there's a bloke called God that created the world is not an absurd thought?


    At least New Age tries to bring forward scientific evidence instead of hanging off the word of a 2000 year-old book. It seems far more logical that any Abrahamic religion.
    Pseudoscience and pseudo logic is not evidence.

  13. #33
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by The Illusionist View Post
    And the fact that there's a bloke called God that created the world is not an absurd thought?
    Is this some sort of accusation?

    At least New Age tries to bring forward scientific evidence instead of hanging off the word of a 2000 year-old book. It seems far more logical that any Abrahamic religion.
    Nope, it's just as illogical and maybe even moreso given the fact that at least one can deem the ''illogical nature'' of religions to their historical background, their primitive stance toward a world that was practically unknown to mankind and else.

    New Age can't simply defend itself on the basis of being born in a world of non-science and so they ''blend'' religious forms with scientific or ''Logically Sound'' ones, which end up creating an even worse form of metaphysics, one that ''apparents'' being empirically verifiable but is, in the end, just as crazy.
    Last edited by Claudius Gothicus; July 05, 2012 at 09:15 AM.

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  14. #34

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    I for one truly believe in the energy from the cosmos and that we're connected to it
    Well if with ‘energy’ we read ‘information background’ aka the holographic principle, then we may have something, but the generalist idea of mystic energies seems more suggestive of mental qualia or emergent properties. Either way some manner of corroboration with science is required [and is sometimes attempted imho].

    On the other hand, the lack of evidence and corroboration at least stops it being a religion ~ which is kinda poetic.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  15. #35
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTophat View Post
    Part 1: Can someone be spiritually aware and synced without following Organized Religion?
    Yes, of course. An organised religion is a set system of behaviours and beliefs combined with an organisational structure. One can be spiritual and be part of a non-organised religion, i.e. a set of behaviours and beliefs without an organisational structure. And one may be spiritual and not be part of any kind of religion, with no specific practices or beliefs.

    Part 2: Can someone be a morally upstanding citizen without religion or spirituality?
    Yes. Morality is a social construction, not exclusively religious.

  16. #36
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Hegel talks of spirituality but never mentions God, only "Reason".
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Spirituality Through Other Means

    Part 1: Can someone be spiritually aware and synced without following Organized Religion?
    Depending on one's definition of "spiritually aware", one certainly can be such without the practices of organized religion. Great insight can be gained from the teachers of the various religions, however, whether you arrive at your conclusions because of, or in spite of, their arguments. You may disagree with the assertion that the world was created from nothing by a benevolent God, but you have furthered your understanding simply by considering the question in the first place. If you have decided, apropos of nothing, that the world is simply the dream of an ancient, unknowable deity, and you can communicate with said deity through copious drug use, then you might have what seems to be a strong sense of spirituality, but with no opposing opinions, it will, in truth, be quite weak.

    As a Buddhist, I will use an example from my own religious practices. In several schools of Buddhism (particularly Zen and Vajrayana [Tibetan]), debate among the monks is encouraged, and encouraged among the lay followers to a lesser extent. A house built on a poor foundation will inevitably collapse. The best way to test the strength of the foundation is to challenge it.

    Organized Religion is a useful tool, in this sense, for encouraging a body of people to come together and bring their own perspectives to strengthen the whole. When Organized Religion becomes overly dogmatic, and refuses to question itself, it becomes weak, and inevitably fractures when the members of the religious community cease to agree with the party line.

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - The Buddha

    Here the Buddha spoke quite clearly on the subject of blindly obeying religious authority. If a man says he is wise, but spouts utter nonsense, he can not be considered to be very wise, can he?

    Part 2: Can someone be a morally upstanding citizen without religion or spirituality?
    One certainly could. However, ethical and moral philosophies have their place, as they remind us of what can harm ourselves, or others. Let us take the simple act of littering. On it's own, the act of carelessly casting a soda can to the side of the street is unlikely to do any great harm to the world. When we examine things on a greater scale, we see that this action causes great harm, because each individual thinks 'What harm can I, a single person, do?' Religion and spiritual practice can do much to remind us of the effects our actions have on others.

    On the other side, however, religion, in it's most dogmatic form, can lead to attempts to impose your morality on others. Perhaps due to a perceived failing on the part of one's self, or that spiritual practice will inevitable die off in a consumerist, material obsessed world. Who can truly say. Most of us can likely agree that attempting to impose your religious practices on others will lead only to further moral failing, as violence can easily result. Did Jesus teach the world of his morality by brow-beating others into quietly submitting to his views? Or did he simply cultivate a good, moral nature in himself, and stand as a living example of his own teachings?

    "What the superior man seeks is within himself: What the small man seeks is within others." - Confucius

    I apologize for having gone slightly off topic at the last point. TL;DR version: One can be moral and just without religion, but religion can certainly help one along the way.

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