Basic Rome v. Gauls Strategy

[Alteris]

I've recently downloaded this mod and must say that I am very much impressed with the design, and even moreso by the challenge the AI provides. Tactics that used to work now end me up with a shattered battle line. I've replayed a battle with the Gauls, some 3000 on my side to 3800 for him, several times as I try to get more of a feel for the mechanics of the game armies. Nonetheless, everything I've tried has got me at best 40% casualty rates - in that run, my leading hastati were pushed back into the principes and ultimately the triarii lines of battle, though not overrun, and ultimately the Gauls wore down and broke apart (my own units were in guard formation). Cavalry charges into their flanks were relatively ineffective, and it seemed like I just had to weather the horde as best I could until they wore out.

The other tactic I tried was the basic shield wall (resulting in slaughter of the hastati). Offensives do not seem to do so well in general, unless the enemy is on the verge of breaking. So, how do you Roman players out there handle a large, fairly standard-looking Gaul horde and hold enough of your army intact to keep the war machine going?

[Revan The Great]

Generally speaking, you should attempt to flank at least in part with infantry, since cavalry is incredibly ineffective in this game compared to how it used to be.

Another problem is guard, it makes units hold their formation, so if a Hastati unit is engaged from the side, only about 10 men will fight at a time, since they're instructed to stay in formation. This also shows when attempting to attack while in guard formation, even if you're just charging reserves into the line, they will be drastically ineffective.

[Lucius_Galba]

Cavalry is much less effective here than it used to be, but if you manage to get the entire Gallic army engaged, then the use of cavalry on masse, say 4 units+ along with your General should course the army to rout. If your defending try to use the shield wall but also try to find a way to stop them flanking you. Hold your front line steady and pincer them as Revan said with some reserve infantry. And when they rout kill them all! don't give them time to regroup.

Cheers
LG

[Alteris]

Shield wall without guard mode, correct? When they were in guard mode with the shieldwall, they were butchered by the hordes.

And the weight of units seems to factor in differently as well (hence my use of guard formation when in the defensive which usually works well is now not so great). When a battle line is pushed forward or backwards, is that simply an indication of which side has more men thrown into the fighting and thus more momentum? It would logically follow that you'd want to roughly match the enemy in volume, if so, as the unit getting pushed back tends to lose cohesion.

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to test them a bit right now...

[Konig]

also, (this might go without saying) you shoulnt forget to put you hastati, principes and velites on fire at will. they will decimate half half of the first units of gauls that charge you. i normaly only use my cav to "sweep" those that are broken. i only charge with them if the gauls are already wavering, and even then its only at the flanks or from behind.

[Hoffman]

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*****
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Hastati, Principes, Slingers/Archers, Velites at the front, toss one volley run like hell.
Hastati maintain shield wall, charge the Principes forward if they start to get pushed back, keep the Triarii in a maneuver column (4 abreast) ready to shift isntantly to the flanks, or break straight through the enemy line.
Hack/slash rinse repeat.
Use the Velites to weaken up a flank, shift one of the principes to a column, extend your line and attack.



I use very Napoleonic tactics in the method of troop movement, remember, the Hastati are not heavy infantry, keep them alive as best you can. They are there to present a long, dependable line that the Gauls can get pinned against. Most gaul infantry will retreat when you pressure them from both flanks and use your Velites to hit 'em with javelins.
Save your ammo!!! One volley at the right spot against the right unit can panick several of units, and turn the panick into a rout, the rout into a massacre.

With Pre-Marians, before I bought peace with the Gauls, I was achieving close to 20-1 kill ratios in open fields.
Of course by that time I had been fighting 2-3 battles per turn for 60 turns, so when it comes to fighting Gauls with Pre-Marians, I'm goood.
Also I primarily used my 1st or 2nd Legion (Virtually all Gold Chevrons) for head-on conflicts.

Remember, Hastati aren't Heavy Infantry, don't expect them to go toe to toe with Chosen Swordsmen and live for very long...
Also, it might be considered somewhat cheating, but putting Hastati in a line with Triarii intermixed, will hold a defensive line until hell heats back up... I only use it for bridge battles when its 3 AM and I'm tired of timing my Velites just right...

[TerraHero]

Hmm, i put my infantry in a widespread line, with shieldwall on Guard. I close th gaps between my troops and kinda curve back at the flanks. This makes your infantry line incredibly hard to outflanks and force the enemy to spread out his force acorss the broad aswell.

Cavalry has much more effect on a thinly spread enemy concentration then on a thick bulk. Not to mention some troops are now out of range of the generals encouragements.

Your infantry will hold. Shield wall gets a 1on1 fight going on and the enemy cant rely on sheer numbers. With the high defence of your troops they wotn get slaughtered. Heck i seen Velites hold there own for a lnog time against Chosen Swordsmen. They dont die as easily as they did before. Now get your cavalry widely across there flanks and hit them in the rear of the flank-sections. When these route, engulve the enemy with presure on both side driving them into a hoard. Repeat the cavalry attack and the enemy should route and be easy pickings to slaughter as they flee.

Also as they aproach your lines, get all troops that can thorw a spear, a stone or shoot an arrow to do so. Perhaps hold back on your Hastati if the Gauls are sneding in Skirmichers first, as the Pilums are killers even to Chosen Swordsmen, why waste it on low skirmichers?

[Cromelex]

All these tacticts are good, but one thing happened now in my campaing that left me thinking.... the Gauls sent assassins and killed two of my best generals in a single turn! I'll be definetly taking assassins of my own to prevent this

[Dio Cassius]

Hastati, Principes, Slingers/Archers, Velites at the front, toss one volley run like hell.

I've always found that a bad idea (putting the Velites at the front) - often they don't get a single effective shot off, and as they run back they throw the infantry behind them into confusion, just as the charging barbarians hit them.

I almost always line my velites up behind the front line of infantry. The Gauls rarely have skirmishers, and even when they do they don't use them very successfully.

Admittedly if you combine this with an intermingled line of Hastatii and Principes all ordered to fire at will, you'll end up with something that looks more like a recreation of a first world war battle than an ancient one...

[Glasgif]

If I were to make a formation against a Gaulish army, it would be like this


Velites Velites



Hastati Hastati Hastati
Principes Principes Principes
Triarii Triarii Triarii
(cav.) General (cav.)

Notice the velites are very far out from the infantry. I have the Hastati and Principes lines on Fire at Will, as the Hastati will always get one volley off. I then charge the hastati into the oncoming Gaulish line, after the fighting starts, I look for breaks in the hastati line and charge that break with a unit of principes, once that happens, I try to rush whatever principes and cav I have left around the whole front line and charge as best I could behind the gauls, not on the flank, behind. I'll usually break at least one unit of gaul and have 1-2 units of infantry free to move around behind the gauls again.

With a good general, none of my units will rout.

[Hoffman]

I've always found that a bad idea (putting the Velites at the front) - often they don't get a single effective shot off, and as they run back they throw the infantry behind them into confusion, just as the charging barbarians hit them.

I almost always line my velites up behind the front line of infantry. The Gauls rarely have skirmishers, and even when they do they don't use them very successfully.

Admittedly if you combine this with an intermingled line of Hastatii and Principes all ordered to fire at will, you'll end up with something that looks more like a recreation of a first world war battle than an ancient one...

Velites takes a bit of finesse.
Stagger one of your two units, so that the Gauls chase one, DO NOT use Skirmish formation, as it will make them run in directions you don't want them to.

As soon as the Gaul infantry start chasing one unit, have them double time it to back behind your lines.
The other unit will be ignored and normally gets 1 or 2 vollies into the gaul infantry before being forced to withdraw.

Velites won't win a battle at the start, but every dead gaul out there is one less gaul your Hastati have to worry about.

The Gaul usually pause right before they hit the lines, allowing my Velites to reform behind the lines and hurl one more volly before I turn them off and send them to the rear as a reserve.


Putting both Hastati and Principes on Fire at will is a waste of Pilla and shock value.
Through the dozens of defensive battles I've found that the initial shock of a Pilla throw wears off fairly quickly, thus being able to spread out your long range ammunition over the period of the battle will panick more Gauls faster.

Hastati Line should fire first, let them engage, as soon as the Gaul start pushing back, fire the Principes, and charge them in to bolster the line.
Then bring up the Velites to pepper any elite Gaul units with javelins.
Pull the slingers to your left flank and let them rain rocks down on the unprotected side of the Gaulic formation.
Remember to keep the triarii in a maneuver column to run swiftly to the flanks if necessary.
The proper placement of reserves will crush a Gaulic army, and the proper timing of ordnance will see them run like little Macedonians.
My favored approach is to slam my Cavalry into their rear, pull back, unleash a volley of Javelins, hold fire, charge, pull back, javelins, rinse repeat.
Breaks Gauls faster than anything else.


Another good tactic if you start off-center to a Gaulic army, IE they're not facing you on startup.
Is to immediately go on the offense.
Outflank, and restrict their maneuverability to 0, you'll take losses, but you'll be able to position your long range units to fire into unprotected back at both ends of the formation and you'll have a rout in moments.

I'll see if I can find some SS of my standard Pre-Marian Formations to show you.

[Dio Cassius]

Velites takes a bit of finesse.
Stagger one of your two units, so that the Gauls chase one, DO NOT use Skirmish formation, as it will make them run in directions you don't want them to.

As soon as the Gaul infantry start chasing one unit, have them double time it to back behind your lines.

Yeah, but why bother with that finesse when you can just line them up behind your shield wall and slaughter the gauls for almost no loss?

[Revan The Great]

Assassins seem to always fail horribly against me for some reason

[The Flower King]

Bring spies to accompany your generals.

[TerraHero]

thats funny, coz i never succeed with assassins.


Its 2% succes rate. Spies should uncover them, and your own assassins can kill there assassins.

I never had a general assassinated.

[Konig]

ive had them bribed but not assassinated. the trick to using assassins is training them first by having them kill captains, then spies, and then other assassins before going for the generals and governers.

[jmack]

naw the best way is to assasinate diplomats and buildings aww yeah

[Savage_Swede]

Ok, ladies and gentlemen. I always use the same tactics against the gauls. I have never lost against the gauls while using my standard ass-kicking tactic.
Something like this:

Hastatii Hastatii Hastatii
Princeps Princeps Princeps
Velites Velites Velites
Triarii Triarii Triarii
Cav. General. Cav.

Hastatii: guard mode, shield wall and fire at will.
Princeps: shield wall
velites: look scary. rawr!
Triarii: look even scarier.

So all gauls charge straight at the hastatii, already getting heavy losses due to the pila. Then when all enemies are locked, set princeps and velites to fire-at-will. If the line is getting pushed back, send in the princeps. Once you send in the princeps the gauls usually break quickly. If not, the end you cavalry around the flanks and, voila! A beautiul massacre!
It always worked in the earlier versions, and they should work now aswell if there havent been any major changes to the A.I.

[Hoffman]

1: Because they're skirmishers, they skirmish.

2: Because when you get good at it, you can figure out how to inflict maximum damage against elite enemy units instead of just random volleys.

3: Because it gives me something to do while I wait for the Gauls to close within Pilla range.

4: If you're good enough at it, you can keep them out there for awhile and draw 4-5 units after them until their Cavalry tries to ride down your skirmishers, putting alot of their army out of place and allowing you to leap to the attack.

5: Because leaving them in column formation behind my Legion is kinda boring, I want all of my men to feel that they're usefull and needed. Keeps morale up, and I've only lost 3 land battles out over 200+.

[Maron]

Maron's formations for full pre-marian legions

offense/attack:

.................(Velites).....................(Velites).................<Velites concentrate fire on enemy elites
(Slingers)...................................................(Slingers)<Slingers deal with enmy light units and cavalry

(Cav)...............................................................(Cav)<Cavs protect slingers and spread out to envelop upon main attack
........(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati).......<Hastati in normal formation for maximum envelopment{engage first obviously}
.(Principes)(Principes)(Principes)(Principes)(Principes).<Principes in normal formation set to fire at will{only engage after all pila have been thrown}
.(Triarii).......................(Triarii).......................(Triarii).<Triarii in middle to bolster line(if needed), "wing" triarii to flank enemy(I love wing triarii )
...................................<Gen>...................................<General...why to inspire, of course

If velites are pursued: draw them back, and hit pursuers in the back with slingers.

If slingers are pursued by an enemy unit: pull them sideways, charge with cavs, and move slingers around behind enemy.
(units have been numbered to show movements)(i dunno if this would qualify as breaking house rules, but it is an effective and efficient way to protect your slingers if they have gold chevrons and you dont want to lose them)


____(Slingers2)_<<<
_________________^
__<Charging>______^
___<Enemy>_______^
____(Cav2)_________^
______^___________^
.......(Slingers1)>>>>^
______^
______^
........(Cav1)

(this may not be the best idea against heavy spears or hoplites but it works very well against all light/medium infantry and cavs as well)
________________________________________________________________
Defensive:

..(Velites)..........................(Velites)...............................<1 velites in center of line and 1 on side where I plan to counter-attack(usually the left)
................(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati)(Hastati)...<Hastati in shieldwall, not in guard mode(I just dont like it), fire at will
(Principes)....................................................................<1 Principes prepare to envelop, normal formation(counter-attack)
..(Triarii)....(Principes)(Principes)(Principes)(Principes)....<Principes set in normal formation...fire at will off, 1 triarii for assisting with the envelopment of the
(Cav)(Cav).......................................(Triarii).......(Triarii)<Double right triarii to make up for lack of right side cavs. Cavs left to support counter attack.
....................................<Gen>.....................................<and the always important general there for moral support

(principes only turn on fire at will after all hastati have engaged.)

Description of envelopment/counter-attack:

Velites concentrate on any cavalry or elite unit on the advancing enemies' right flank. Next the principes should engage the furthest right enemy possible. The triarii should then move around to the side/back of that enemy unit and fight using the ALT-attack(sword attack){unless fighting cavalry}. next the 2 units of cavalry should completely avoid any frontal attacks and move around behind the right flank of the enemy and promptly rout any units that have been engaged by the principes and triarii (After this is where I usually send my general around the left side of the field, team him up with my remaining cavalry, and proceed to destroy the enemy general and his bodyguard.(Once again...might be against house rules...I think Lt dislikes general assasinations.

Hope this helps,
-Maron

p.s. that took a while, but i must say...I did a pretty good job