Submod Fall of Arnor Total War Version 2.4 released

[mithnar]

and arnor still atacking high elves...litlle annoing

[DiZaster]

its a pain in the ass playing for noldor with this sub-mod...arnor is ing the out of me,already lost rivendell and one settlement near mithlond..Elrond and Glorinfindel are dead : (

[TesalionLortus]

its a pain in the ass playing for noldor with this sub-mod...arnor is ing the out of me,already lost rivendell and one settlement near mithlond..Elrond and Glorinfindel are dead : (

Lets just say Arnor's men fall to the Witchking influence and destroy you for him And for serious propably the same what I wrote last time, above... But such players tests and their notes for sure could be useful for author of the submod.

[Clagius]

Looks good, but Rohan and Isengard were part of Gondor.

[TesalionLortus]

Looks good, but Rohan and Isengard were part of Gondor.

There is no Isengard / rohan in this submod. Just like you said, all Rohan lands and Isengard actually are regions of Gondor in this submod.

[mithnar]

the load screens are cool - where are they from?

mod is some-history-correct..and very nice, but have some "bugs"...
1/Cardolan faction is...strange (Gandalf, Aragorn etc... ) and attacked sometimes Arnor/High Elves
2/I think Arnor is too strong...had many money and very cheap buildings and good units - its like war-maschine
3/Castamiriona cant build ships.. it is sad
im still testing...

[TesalionLortus]

the load screens are cool - where are they from?

I'm not sure. But if I'm correct some of them were made as a concept arts for Eriador lands when LOTRO game was in development. And the rest- maybe from Battle for Middle-Earth Rise of the Witchking game.


And all users, don't worry about mod factions and bugs like this. It could be corrected in future. As for now author is propably focusing on Angmar faction (I gave him good suggestions for many units and improvements). Perhaps he already made some of it and he is doing more coz he wasn't active here since he saw my suggestion files. While he isnt here, I decided to answer some of users questions as you can see

Of course Cardolan faction is only renamed Free Peoples as you can see... so they have Aragorn, Gandalf for now. But after some changes in Angmar and yes, propably Arnor which for sure needs few changes, Carlos could decide to work on Cardolan. And about Castamiriona- im not sure but if i'm correct they are edited Dale faction (and Dale in LOTR TW propbaly cannot build ships). For sure also could be changed but it's easy to say than to do at once, especially when author work alone... I'm ready to help him with things I'm able like provading detailed suggestions, searching some pics, descriptions, sounds etc if need but I'm not skilled modder and sadly I cannot help with creating units or anything like that... And propably dont have time to learn it especially for this project...

By the way what do you mean by 'some-history-correct', mithnar? I'm Tolkien's fan but I don't have whole Tolkien's work in my head, I need to search for such things in books. Is there something totally not accuracy to the time-frames? (without talking about things like Uruks in Angmar faction xD etc... As i said it could and for sure will be changed in future)

[mithnar]

I'm not sure. But if I'm correct some of them were made as a concept arts for Eriador lands when LOTRO game was in development. And the rest- maybe from Battle for Middle-Earth Rise of the Witchking game.


And all users, don't worry about mod factions and bugs like this. It could be corrected in future. As for now author is propably focusing on Angmar faction (I gave him good suggestions for many units and improvements). Perhaps he already made some of it and he is doing more coz he wasn't active here since he saw my suggestion files. While he isnt here, I decided to answer some of users questions as you can see

Of course Cardolan faction is only renamed Free Peoples as you can see... so they have Aragorn, Gandalf for now. But after some changes in Angmar and yes, propably Arnor which for sure needs few changes, Carlos could decide to work on Cardolan. And about Castamiriona- im not sure but if i'm correct they are edited Dale faction (and Dale in LOTR TW propbaly cannot build ships). For sure also could be changed but it's easy to say than to do at once, especially when author work alone... I'm ready to help him with things I'm able like provading detailed suggestions, searching some pics, descriptions, sounds etc if need but I'm not skilled modder and sadly I cannot help with creating units or anything like that... And propably dont have time to learn it especially for this project...

By the way what do you mean by 'some-history-correct', mithnar? I'm Tolkien's fan but I don't have whole Tolkien's work in my head, I need to search for such things in books. Is there something totally not accuracy to the time-frames? (without talking about things like Uruks in Angmar faction xD etc... As i said it could and for sure will be changed in future)

'some-history-correct'
I too easy take Imladris...and that was magic place hard to take

and..
i was wrong in case dwarves i though the moria was left before 1500

[Clagius]

There is no Isengard / rohan in this submod. Just like you said, all Rohan lands and Isengard actually are regions of Gondor in this submod.

As they were in lore.

[Eoraptor1]

Alright, I’m back. I did get the game stabilized enough to play out to 200 turns, and I have some observations.

Playing the Arnor faction I was able to destroy Angmar as a faction by turn 100 and complete my victory conditions by turn 150. This is a quibble, but I found the Angmar order of battle orc-heavy. I may be wrong here, but I envisioned many more subverted humans under the Witch King. I was attacked by the Dwarven Clans almost immediately after defeating Angmar despite the modified file, but have not yet been attacked by the Noldor. The Dwarves are very tough opponents, but I don’t know why they would attack me, as I made sure to tiptoe around their territories. As I’ve already posted, I think this is something in the Total War game engine, to keep conflict going, and especially at the higher difficulty levels, some very un-Tolkien things tend to happen. I tried to imagine what could possibly make Elrond or Cirdan attack Arthedain, despite their being elf-friends, and the only thing I could come up with besides an unprovoked attack was a king of Arnor somehow finding The One Ring and becoming a corrupted Middle Earth imperialist, which could conceivably have happened if Isildur had escaped ambush and made it back to the North.
My single diplomat magically became Cardolanian (I’m assuming he was bribed) and I’m now without a diplomat, and seemingly without means to generate another. I’d like to try arranging a cease-fire with Gondor, who’ve also decided to attack me. Now that I could actually see happening. I could most definitely envision a militarily successful ruler of Gondor deciding to re-establish Elendil’s High-Kingship, under his rule, especially if Mordor is in eclipse. We also have the precedent of the Kin-Strife directly from Tolkien’s writings. As of turn 150, I’m doing very well against Gondor, but these have been mostly frontier troops. The regulars are now moving up. I’d love to call a cease fire and get to killing orcs and Easterlings like a proper Dunedian. Orcs have overrun Northern Mirkwood and are feasting in Thranduil’s Halls. The Silvan Elves are gone as a faction, so really it’s not in my interest to have a weak Gondor. I need them to help keep the orcs and Easterlings out of Arnor.
I don’t think the Witch King should be allowed to regenerate if he dies in combat with Arnor, because it’s one of these Northern Dunedain blades (given him by Tom Bombadil at the Barrow Downs) that allows Merry to dispatch the Witch King at Pelennor Fields.

I can say I’ve left the line of Isildur a House not bereft of dignity, and maintained its lordship over the North. Interesting to contemplate of Middle Earth "history" would have been different if this had "happened". The sub-mod, as it exists, was very fast and exciting to play, but at least on my system, though, the mod has stability problems.

JAMES

[TesalionLortus]

Alright, I’m back. I did get the game stabilized enough to play out to 200 turns, and I have some observations.

Playing the Arnor faction I was able to destroy Angmar as a faction by turn 100 and complete my victory conditions by turn 150. This is a quibble, but I found the Angmar order of battle orc-heavy. I may be wrong here, but I envisioned many more subverted humans under the Witch King. I was attacked by the Dwarven Clans almost immediately after defeating Angmar despite the modified file, but have not yet been attacked by the Noldor. The Dwarves are very tough opponents, but I don’t know why they would attack me, as I made sure to tiptoe around their territories. As I’ve already posted, I think this is something in the Total War game engine, to keep conflict going, and especially at the higher difficulty levels, some very un-Tolkien things tend to happen. I tried to imagine what could possibly make Elrond or Cirdan attack Arthedain, despite their being elf-friends, and the only thing I could come up with besides an unprovoked attack was a king of Arnor somehow finding The One Ring and becoming a corrupted Middle Earth imperialist, which could conceivably have happened if Isildur had escaped ambush and made it back to the North.
My single diplomat magically became Cardolanian (I’m assuming he was bribed) and I’m now without a diplomat, and seemingly without means to generate another. I’d like to try arranging a cease-fire with Gondor, who’ve also decided to attack me. Now that I could actually see happening. I could most definitely envision a militarily successful ruler of Gondor deciding to re-establish Elendil’s High-Kingship, under his rule, especially if Mordor is in eclipse. We also have the precedent of the Kin-Strife directly from Tolkien’s writings. As of turn 150, I’m doing very well against Gondor, but these have been mostly frontier troops. The regulars are now moving up. I’d love to call a cease fire and get to killing orcs and Easterlings like a proper Dunedian. Orcs have overrun Northern Mirkwood and are feasting in Thranduil’s Halls. The Silvan Elves are gone as a faction, so really it’s not in my interest to have a weak Gondor. I need them to help keep the orcs and Easterlings out of Arnor.
I don’t think the Witch King should be allowed to regenerate if he dies in combat with Arnor, because it’s one of these Northern Dunedain blades (given him by Tom Bombadil at the Barrow Downs) that allows Merry to dispatch the Witch King at Pelennor Fields.

I can say I’ve left the line of Isildur a House not bereft of dignity, and maintained its lordship over the North. Interesting to contemplate of Middle Earth "history" would have been different if this had "happened". The sub-mod, as it exists, was very fast and exciting to play, but at least on my system, though, the mod has stability problems.

JAMES

Good review! To be honest I haven't time to play mod so long and cannot say so much about gameplay experience. But about Angmar and their battle tactic (and propably also with more factions) it could change later, when mod will be more improved. For example more humans under Withcking- I have already made good suggestions for DarkCarlos whcih you can see in attachments in one of my posts (if you check out older posts in this thread). I suggest there Angmar faction with cheap-orc-base (no uruk hai of course) and many men units, regular, tribesmen etc., and also Dark Numenorians as general's unit. And Arnor faction propably also needs some improvements or adding them a few more light units for example. But it's good you made so full gameplay review already ; ) For sure could be helpful for Calros, so (when he come back on forum after- whatever he is doing, maybe modding?- tell him if you experienced any bigger issues)

But about war experience- it's RTW engine fault and whatever modder will do it's cannot change to much. But if you want more historicall-Tolkien accuracy you could use Force Diplomacy (which is included in LOTR TW files if i'm not wrong). While you see diplomacy screen, you have to click help buttom in the up corner, then (when you see advisor) you have to click 'show me how' button and send your offer to AI- he accepts everything ; ) so you can force alliance if it should exist between some faction (like elves and Arnor for example).

So good playing if you want to test more but if you dont have time its propably better you wait for next version or some little patch from Carlos. And check out my Angmar suggestion if you are interested about Angmar units. Of course possibilities of Carlos have some limits (for now, if no more better modders is support this project). So I made my suggestion easy to do, only with changes in skin colours etc

[Eoraptor1]

Good review! To be honest I haven't time to play mod so long and cannot say so much about gameplay experience. But about Angmar and their battle tactic (and propably also with more factions) it could change later, when mod will be more improved. For example more humans under Withcking- I have already made good suggestions for DarkCarlos whcih you can see in attachments in one of my posts (if you check out older posts in this thread). I suggest there Angmar faction with cheap-orc-base (no uruk hai of course) and many men units, regular, tribesmen etc., and also Dark Numenorians as general's unit. And Arnor faction propably also needs some improvements or adding them a few more light units for example. But it's good you made so full gameplay review already ; ) For sure could be helpful for Calros, so (when he come back on forum after- whatever he is doing, maybe modding?- tell him if you experienced any bigger issues)

But about war experience- it's RTW engine fault and whatever modder will do it's cannot change to much. But if you want more historicall-Tolkien accuracy you could use Force Diplomacy (which is included in LOTR TW files if i'm not wrong). While you see diplomacy screen, you have to click help buttom in the up corner, then (when you see advisor) you have to click 'show me how' button and send your offer to AI- he accepts everything ; ) so you can force alliance if it should exist between some faction (like elves and Arnor for example).

So good playing if you want to test more but if you dont have time its propably better you wait for next version or some little patch from Carlos. And check out my Angmar suggestion if you are interested about Angmar units. Of course possibilities of Carlos have some limits (for now, if no more better modders is support this project). So I made my suggestion easy to do, only with changes in skin colours etc

Alright then, I’ve gotten to Turn 241 now and I think it’s time to stop. Arnor is a full fledged empire; my faction leader is undoubtedly Middle Earth’s version of "The King in the North". Arnor controls all of Eriador except the Noldorin territories, all of Calenardhon, and the equal technically and militarily of Gondor. I have full stack armies posted at all the bridgeheads coming from Minas Anor, and punished Gondor’s armies badly for trying to force a crossing, easily killing nine to my one, but do not have strength to take Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, or move into Ithilien. The Dwarven faction is extinct. I besieged Khazad-Dum for seven turns and repulsed the Dwarves’ sortie, albeit at very great cost. I’d imagined Moria would be much more difficult to take down, what with its labyrinth of tunnels. I don’t even want to think about what it would be like trying to dig a determined Dwarf army out of their own briar batch. The only strategy I can think might be successful would be to invest the whole site and starve them out. Even then, how difficult would it be to stop them from tunneling out somewhere else? I didn’t want to kill Dwarves at all. I still had no diplomat, Force Diplomacy did not work, and they continued to launch unprovoked sorties into my territory. I couldn’t get the advisor screen to come up at all from the Diplomacy menu. Maybe I did something wrong in the installation. Two turns after I took Khazad-Dum, I was attacked by Galadrim from Lorien. In keeping with what I said in my last post, these kind of un-Tolkien things tend to happen at the higher levels of difficulty, and I do believe it’s something coded in the Total War engine to encourage ongoing conflict. Why would Lorien elves attack Elendili? Over Moria? I never made sorties into their territory, and the Misty Mountains were still crawling with orcs and hill-trolls, whom the Galadrim were ideally suited to clear away. Why then, attack elf-friends? I don’t recall any elf nation ever interfering in the Kin-Strife in Tolkien’s writings. Why then, wage war upon Arnor? What I really wanted to do was call a cease-fire with Gondor, ally with Lorien, pushing the orcs out of Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains altogether. That, in my opinion, is a much worthier mission for the Dunedain than killing each other. I was bleeding the orcs severely in the North, but lacked the infrastructure to move sufficient troops into Northern Mirkwood. IMO, the AI handles orc-armies much more sensibly than their human counterparts. You can kill orcs day and night, but there are always more streaming out of the Misty Mountains or Northern Mirkwood. You really do have to pull them up at the roots, wiping out their bases.

Again, a very exciting and fast moving sub-mod. My major complaint would have to be the lack of any ability to expend diplomacy once my first and only agent was turned. I do hope this can be fixed in subsequent versions.

JAMES

[TesalionLortus]

Alright then, I’ve gotten to Turn 241 now and I think it’s time to stop. Arnor is a full fledged empire; my faction leader is undoubtedly Middle Earth’s version of "The King in the North". Arnor controls all of Eriador except the Noldorin territories, all of Calenardhon, and the equal technically and militarily of Gondor. I have full stack armies posted at all the bridgeheads coming from Minas Anor, and punished Gondor’s armies badly for trying to force a crossing, easily killing nine to my one, but do not have strength to take Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, or move into Ithilien. The Dwarven faction is extinct. I besieged Khazad-Dum for seven turns and repulsed the Dwarves’ sortie, albeit at very great cost. I’d imagined Moria would be much more difficult to take down, what with its labyrinth of tunnels. I don’t even want to think about what it would be like trying to dig a determined Dwarf army out of their own briar batch. The only strategy I can think might be successful would be to invest the whole site and starve them out. Even then, how difficult would it be to stop them from tunneling out somewhere else? I didn’t want to kill Dwarves at all. I still had no diplomat, Force Diplomacy did not work, and they continued to launch unprovoked sorties into my territory. I couldn’t get the advisor screen to come up at all from the Diplomacy menu. Maybe I did something wrong in the installation. Two turns after I took Khazad-Dum, I was attacked by Galadrim from Lorien. In keeping with what I said in my last post, these kind of un-Tolkien things tend to happen at the higher levels of difficulty, and I do believe it’s something coded in the Total War engine to encourage ongoing conflict. Why would Lorien elves attack Elendili? Over Moria? I never made sorties into their territory, and the Misty Mountains were still crawling with orcs and hill-trolls, whom the Galadrim were ideally suited to clear away. Why then, attack elf-friends? I don’t recall any elf nation ever interfering in the Kin-Strife in Tolkien’s writings. Why then, wage war upon Arnor? What I really wanted to do was call a cease-fire with Gondor, ally with Lorien, pushing the orcs out of Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains altogether. That, in my opinion, is a much worthier mission for the Dunedain than killing each other. I was bleeding the orcs severely in the North, but lacked the infrastructure to move sufficient troops into Northern Mirkwood. IMO, the AI handles orc-armies much more sensibly than their human counterparts. You can kill orcs day and night, but there are always more streaming out of the Misty Mountains or Northern Mirkwood. You really do have to pull them up at the roots, wiping out their bases.

Again, a very exciting and fast moving sub-mod. My major complaint would have to be the lack of any ability to expend diplomacy once my first and only agent was turned. I do hope this can be fixed in subsequent versions.

JAMES

He, and you wrote again excellent review I have just checked this out and force diplomacy works on this submod. I don't know it works if the first offer is the AI's offer but I think it should. Maybe you just missed where you should click? In the right up corner, help button (which is: '?' )- then advisor should show up and all what player needs is to click 'show me how' button, and then send proposition (from the diplomacy screen) to the AI.

And yes- unreal and un-Tolkien things happens very often on Total War engine. It's just Rome and Medieval games which are made in this way... to keep fight on the borders. In Medieval its a bit easier coz there factions have dipplomacy relations which each over- for example if you have 'friendly' relations which faction A, this faction propably may not attack you but if you have bad relations for sure will attack your nearest city... Rome engine don't have this- and factions very easy break alliances and attack stronger factions... The way is only Force Diplomacy to prevent such things.

Ohh. And yeah, it's true. Factions don't have ability to recruit new diplomats and that should be fixed. I suppose it was make in this way for LOTR TW because it presents situation of War of the ring... where factions shouldnt spread plenty diplomats on the campaign map but focus on fight.

Middle Earth’s version of "The King in the North"... he, good sentence ; )

[Eoraptor1]

He, and you wrote again excellent review I have just checked this out and force diplomacy works on this submod. I don't know it works if the first offer is the AI's offer but I think it should. Maybe you just missed where you should click? In the right up corner, help button (which is: '?' )- then advisor should show up and all what player needs is to click 'show me how' button, and then send proposition (from the diplomacy screen) to the AI.

And yes- unreal and un-Tolkien things happens very often on Total War engine. It's just Rome and Medieval games which are made in this way... to keep fight on the borders. In Medieval its a bit easier coz there factions have dipplomacy relations which each over- for example if you have 'friendly' relations which faction A, this faction propably may not attack you but if you have bad relations for sure will attack your nearest city... Rome engine don't have this- and factions very easy break alliances and attack stronger factions... The way is only Force Diplomacy to prevent such things.

Ohh. And yeah, it's true. Factions don't have ability to recruit new diplomats and that should be fixed. I suppose it was make in this way for LOTR TW because it presents situation of War of the ring... where factions shouldnt spread plenty diplomats on the campaign map but focus on fight.

Middle Earth’s version of "The King in the North"... he, good sentence ; )

Thank you for your compliments. I'll try again with the Diplomacy screen, but I don't see where I did anything wrong. I may have done an improper install. Remember, I had trouble getting the mod to work at all in my original installation. I'll work on it when I have time.

JAMES

[niko21]

Hello again for long time. In LOTR TW there is one faction that has Palantirs couse if you think about what is Gondor? is it a faction whit 3 Palantirs? Yes indeed so then Anor? again some more Palantirs. So mby they could be used.

[KnightAntonio]

Can someone give me a link where to download? The link on the first page is death.

[Martinias]

Please reload download link old one is dead.

One more thing i was reading on previous pages your discusion on angmar. Angmar did not have uruk-hai units(which appear in late third age made by saruman), most of angmar's armies where made by orcs and hillman and snow trolls of the mountains. Arnor fell because of few things. It was weaken by civil war and it was splited in 3 kingdoms and because they were unprepared for open war or any kind of war

[TesalionLortus]

One more thing i was reading on previous pages your discusion on angmar. Angmar did not have uruk-hai units(which appear in late third age made by saruman), most of angmar's armies where made by orcs and hillman and snow trolls of the mountains. Arnor fell because of few things. It was weaken by civil war and it was splited in 3 kingdoms and because they were unprepared for open war or any kind of war

Hey there. Soryy for delay... I had the submod and I have just reuploaded it.

NEW LINK FOR THE SUBMOD: http://www.gamefront.com/files/22194382/FALL+OF+ARNOR+TW+VERSION+1.1.7z

It's the newest version (1.2) but the number in the title just remained as 1.1


And we know about Angmar, Martinias ; ) This mod is in early stage with factions reality but i hope DarkCarlos is able to continue the work (if he returns...). If you are interested about Angmar you can check out my Angmar suggestions for Carlos, here: Attachment 239504

[Martinias]

Thank you very much for the link tesalion I will take a look on angmar suggestions link as well tnx once again

[niko21]

Martinas please read also the other pages as we all know the fact about the uruk hai .