How to Survive as France and Germany H (VH)/VH

**The Unknown General** · May 23, 2012, 08:30 AM

Both have a lot of settlements and rebel settlements around them, but I always go bankrupt unless I cover castles into cities and dismantle my armies. I tried expanding as quickly as I can, but it doesn't seem to help. I make sure to get trade rights with everyone and build roads first in the settlements that don't have them.

**Silent Assassin** · May 23, 2012, 01:31 PM

Here are guides that may help you, which more can be found HERE You will find in that thread a lot of information on different and relevant aspects of M2TW

How to manage your settlements by Silent Assassin
some of my advice:

- Don't build everything you can, not all buildings are necessary in every settlement; Having a blacksmith in a rear area city is pointless.

- Aim for a ratio of 4:1 cities to castles (depending on whether you use Vanilla or a mod map, this could change)

- Disband military units you will not use within the next 5 turns (except militia garrisoned for free). A 600FL DFK unit costs 250FL/turn to maintain. Unless they're veteran or at the front, disband them. Especially artillery at 350FL/turn. I only keep really high valour units, and tend to send them to the front.

- Build land improvements because they are the quickest way to getting big cities, which produce higher level buildings and more tax revenues from a larger population; squalor isn't as big an issue as it was in RTW

- AFAIK farming is taxed; mouse over all the elements on the Settlement screen and the Trade Summary

- DON'T sack a Christian settlement unless that faction is excommunated and you really need the cash immediately; otherwise the settlement takes a long time to recover and you lose standing with other factions. NEVER exterminate Christian settlements if you are a Christian faction, and if you are an Islamic faction, that's a great way to get a Crusade called against you.

- Always upgrade settlements ASAP (otherwise you'll have an irreversible squalor problem which affects future growth)

- Watch your governors' traits. Some of them can get cumulative tax, squalor and unrest penalties that can practically destroy your economy in a big city

- Always have the tax rate set to at least "high" (where possible) otherwise your governors get tax penalty traits; you don't need 100% public order in all cities.

- Only build brothels/taverns/inns in cities with older governors who already have fathered children, or else you may get the "Adulteress" retinue character which can devastate a family line if a young governor gets it

- Only build militia buildings in cities where you have an unrest issue, unless those cities may be open to attack

- Kill off Rebels/Brigands/Pirates ASAP as they affect happiness. Rebels/Brigands also cause Devastation which is an issue

- In the Trade Summary screen, flashing income items mean you are not getting the most out of your trade potential. Improving roads and ports is vital.

- Turn down the Thieves Guild for high income settlements and work towards the Merchants or Explorers Guild; only build Thieves Guilds in lower income cities where you'll train most of your spies. Most of the AI settlements you capture will have Thieves Guilds anyway.

- Don't ever destroy a Guild building, even in a captured settlement, as that destroys your ratings with all Guilds.

- On VH, make sure your good generals are pious or they'll get killed by Inquisitors. Building Churches early on makes it easier to get 100% Catholic regions that don't fall to Heresy, which is a mid game problem.

- Merchants can be powerful so use them wisely and move them off a resource if you spot a high valour AI merchant closing in. The AI doesn't buy out merchants who are not trading. Build up a merchant's experience close to home and only move them away when they have 3 coins rating. They'll usually die just when they're getting good; nothing you can do about that.

- Only execute captured troops when you are absolutely certain they would defeat you in an ensuing battle. Otherwise your reputation suffers and a chivalrous general loses points. Likewise, if you want a dreaded general, execute when you have a small number of troops. It also seems like the AI doesn't pay the smaller ransoms, only for larger numbers of troops.

Economic Guide for M2TW by Fornlope Getting an economy is the stepping stone to everything in m2tw. Without money you can’t create buildings, train troops or even defend yourself. Without money in M2TW you are nothing but fodder to be chopped up and ground into a red paste. This guide will give you a quick rundown on generating a huge pile of cash to fund your expansion.

The first key to untold riches is roads. Without roads your economy is utterly stalled and will never be anything. Roads increase trade by quite a bit and they enable your armies to move much further than they could otherwise. Always construct roads everywhere you possibly can when you have the funds.

Next you want mines. Mines are expensive at first, but they provide a substantial reliable income that never changes like farm income does. Mines cannot be destroyed, so if you take over a settlement that has a mine you will get their mine too and they can get yours.

Trade rights are also very important for your financial health, as they bring in a lot more money from trade with other factions. Send a diplomat to every faction you can and ask for trade rights and offer map information or a few florins and usually they will accept. Quite often factions will ask you first.

Next you want farms everywhere. Farms increase population growth and money from farming income. Open the settlement scroll then click the show settlement details button at the bottom of the scroll and then click the scales icon on the bottom left of that scroll to find the economic status of the settlement. At the bottom you will see the farm income and what sort of harvest it was. The type of harvest you get is random and better harvests bring in more income. If the settlement has a good farm income, say 250+ florins you should build farm improvements to improve it further, building farms in poor areas will encourage more population growth, as you are providing a food surplus. Building farms everywhere when you have money to burn is a good idea, as it brings in even more money and grows your city faster. The whole point of growing your cities, besides to access more advanced tech is to tax them.

Next you have to organise what settlements are cities and which aren’t. Cities will provide much, much more income than castles will, but they are a lot harder to keep loyal, as castles have much higher public order and you can get away with just 2 or 3 units garrisoning or maybe even none. Towns are unruly and need a much larger garrison, even with public order buildings. Towns are harder to defend as they have lousy walls compared to castles. Towns also grow faster and can build much larger religious buildings. They also are the only places where you can train gunpowder troops, as you can only train gunpowder artillery in castles, not infantry or cavalry.

It’s best to have castles on your borders with people you are at war at or will be at war with soon, which is basically everyone because of the shoddy diplomacy. Castles are far better at resisting sieges and are much harder to assault than towns. You should have all settlements in your heartlands, places you’ve conquered that are within your empire, away from the borders as cities, as they will hopefully not be assaulted and will make the most money this way. If you want to make copious use of gunpowder troops you should have a huge city close to the borders stay a city, so it can pump out gunpowder troops.

Alos don't build every building in a settlement as its a waste of money. You don't need elite level barracks costing 9400 florins in a heartland settlement thats never going to be attacked.

Settlements in m2tw can support a certain number of units for free. These units will have a blue background on the control panel when you click a settlement’s army tab. The larger the settlement the more free troops it can support. Usually you need more garrison to keep a city loyal than the free ones but it can be handy.

The free troops with the blue background are easily visible.

Next you need to get your garrisons sorted out. Army upkeep can be very expensive in m2tw and it’s a complete waste if you have elite knights costing 225 florins a turn garrisoning a settlement deep in your empire that will never be attacked. Always move elite troops towards the front, i.e. where you’re fighting to make use of them or disband no longer needed troops. Make sure you don’t leave mercenaries around in settlements. They are more expensive than normal troops and will drain your treasury fast if you leave a lot of them in your settlements. Just use the settlement flags to see how many men at a glance is in the settlements and disband and replace them with spear militia, peasant archers, crossbows or even just plain peasants.

Tax will form a lot of your income and needs to be balanced. More tax will give you greater income, but will make the settlement unhappy. You can pick from low tax, normal tax, high tax or very high tax. Usually unless you desperately need money have the tax on normal or low as the hit to public order can be too great at higher tax rates. This is especially true if the city is huge. When a city has 30k or so people it will be so big it will bring in stacks of money even with a low tax rate. If you have a building in the settlement to allow you to hold races or jousts, such as a jousting field or a Plaza Del Toro there will be another option for daily, monthly or yearly races. Having more races will raise public order, but will cost more money.

Trade is probably the most important part of your income and will form the largest part, along with taxes. It is not that important to know what a settlement has access to before setting up trade routes, just build the biggest market you can there and a port and merchant wharf line. If built you’ll bring in plenty of money, though of course huge central cities tend to make much more than out of the way places. Make sure you keep building roads when you have trade buildings up, as this provides even more trade. The merchants wharf adds more trade ship fleets to the settlement which increases trade ever further.

big image to show detail (614k)

This picture shows the various ways to see income and gauge trade.

Central settlements like central Europe and Italy are very rich and there is a lot of trade if you build up your settlements. The number of carts or ships shows the amount of land and sea trade taking place. the ones with the most carts are the most profitable so keep them safe and enemies out so the trade flow isn't interrupted.

Certain governors have traits than can affect certain income, like more or less tax income or trade. Having high or low taxes can also increase dread or chivalry. You should check your governor isn’t too incompetent before leaving him there. The management stat from RTW doesn’t exist now so it’s down to traits and retinue.

Merchants aren’t really all that useful, tho they can sometimes make a tidy sum. When you make a merchant he will have a finance rating. This governs how good he is at making money and the higher it is the more he will make from trade resources. Trade resources are shown as things like small piles of gold or logs or goblets of wine. You then move the merchant over the resource and he will begin to trade. If you look at his scroll you can see what he’s trading and for how much. Mostly this trade will be a really small amount except for things like gold and wine. The absolute
est trade opportunities come in the new world as you’ll get insane profits from tobacco, chocolate and coffee. Make sure you take some merchants with you on the boats to the new world and some priests to convert the heathens.

As you probably already know it’s possible for your merchants to buy out other merchants which will put them out of business, which can be handy if they are sitting on a juicy resource you want. If the merchant fails to buy out the other merchant he might be forced to quit instead and you’ll lose the merchant. Only target merchants with less or equal finance than your merchant has.

Also check what governors you have, particularly for your huge money making cities. Though acumen doesn’t exist anymore, a governor can have traits pertaining to governing a settlement. If he has traits like corrupt or the extravagant line you’ll make less money from the settlement as to governor takes it for himself. Governors with bad negative trade traits are crippling as well. Don’t put these guys in charge of large settlements. Also high dread or high chivalry helps keep the population in line, so for cities it’s good to have a governor that’s high in one of these status if he’s equally good as a general with a lower stat.

Finally protect your lands. Enemy armies in your provinces block trade routes and if left there cause devastation which loses you money, a black burnt area around an army shows it is causing devastation. Rebel armies often do this, so send out troops to crush people that hang around in your land. Neutral and allied armies don’t do this.

The black area shows where my armies have been devastating the Hungarian's territory

his is Budapest's status after i took it. Notice the devastation. This goes away over time.

Naval trade can be blocked by enemy ships blockading your ports, stopping trade. Have a navy ready to fight off the attackers and keep your lucrative sea trade open.

Make sure you keep you sea trade open!

You should also try to keep peace with factions for as long as possible if you are trying to make money, so you keep you trade rights with them. However taking new settlements is the way to make even more money, as that provides more trade and more tax.

I hope this guide has been useful! Now get out there and rake in the cash!

Hope this will help you

SA

**John Doe** · May 25, 2012, 03:54 AM

At the start of the game, try to keep a good reputation, occupy any rebel settlement you get as it's important to keep a good global reputation. Get as many alliance as you can (recruit diplomats), and haggle with other factions for money, alliance+trade right+map info: with HRE you should get 2000 gold for 2 turns (usually down from 2000 for 4 turns), for France it's less but you should get something.

But the real money comes from ceasefire with certain factions. HRE will be attacked in Italy by Byzantine and moors and France by Moors and Sicily in toulouse and Marseille and Scotland in Rennes. Getting ceasefire+trade right+map info for 3000 or 4000 for 3 or 4 turns is common. The higher your reputation, the more money you'll get from the deals.

Those 2 tips should get you enough money to build your economy and your military strengh. At the very beginning, HRE should watch out at Venice and Sicily, and France be carefull of HRE, as getting ceasefire with them is almost impossible once a conflict start.

**shikaka** · May 25, 2012, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Unknown General

Both have a lot of settlements and rebel settlements around them, but I always go bankrupt unless I cover castles into cities and dismantle my armies. I tried expanding as quickly as I can, but it doesn't seem to help. I make sure to get trade rights with everyone and build roads first in the settlements that don't have them.

Well, convert castles into cities. You don't need many! As France, keep Angiers, Toulose and I think Metz (not sure, there is a rebel castle on your eastern border) as casltes, that is enough. As Germany, keep Hamburg and one more around the swiss border.

Also, build cheap things first, roads, grain exchange, basic docks. If still not enough, use higher taxes for a few turns. Also, don't sign trade agreements, but sell trade agreements. (even 500 florin is better then nothing, you can build a road from that money)

What usually makes conquering rebels easy, is to lay siege with a numerically inferior force: this way, when they sally, rush to the gates and slaughter the guys storming out through the gates to your well set trap

This works especially good when you have general's bodyguard or hashashin, which are low on men, but have 2HP!

Alliances:
1. definietly the Pope! first diplomat goes to Rome, and gives presents to the pope.
2. Ally the other. As France ally HRE, as HRE ally France. This helps you greatly to deal with Milan, Denmark (common enemy), England (as France) and Poland (as HRE), and secures an important front.

Edit: as HRE it might be a good idea to sell Bologna for some florins and an alliance with the Pope. That city will drag you into a war with Sicily and Venice.

**lolIsuck** · May 25, 2012, 05:35 AM

I wouldn't actually keep Hamburg as castle, it's port and mines make it quite a good income centre, I would go for Magdeburg.
I wouldn't sell Bologna either as that too is a good moneymaking settlement. Keep crappy landlocked castles as your recruitment centres.

As France take the rebel settlements around you, you get armies to take Bordeaux and Dijon from turn 1 so you should do that, next step is moving into Rennes and Metz. Convert Bordeaux, 2 castles next to eachother is useless, unless you want an Atlantikwalle. I think Toulouse could make a great income as a city but since it is and always will be your most advanced castle most people don't convert it. You main moneymaking settlement is Marseille and also Dijon makes a good income, Paris is quite crappy actually. Flanders can generate loads of money too.

**Aymer de Valence** · May 25, 2012, 07:51 AM

Yeah as shikaka said, charge a fee for trade agreements, the AI usually accepts - i've even had them come to me offering money for a trade deal which i would have been happy to accept for free. Also, I wouldn't get a trade agreement with every faction, only those closest to you, for example if you are France, I wouldn't try to get an agreement with the Turks. Unlike ETW; MTW2 and RTW don't seem to allow you to trade with far away factions (even though you sign the agreement, the goods won't actually be imported/exported, and you will lose money because of it)

**Avatar** · May 25, 2012, 02:19 PM

For France, ally with Scotland. Its historically accurate and also a very good strategic move. Kick the English off the continent by taking Caen, clean up the rebel regions and then turn several castles to cities. Whatever you do, never, ever, turn Toulouse into a city though.

With the HRE, decide which way you plan to expand and send your diplomats/princesses the other way to secure the best possible peace on the other border. Given their troop strength I'd be inclined to start by going north and south to blunt Denmark and kill off Milan before they can expand and trouble you. An alliance with France will hold an entire border, which then means you can look to the east and work on either Poland, Hungary or Venice depending on how the political map falls out.

**Double A** · May 25, 2012, 05:54 PM

If you're too lazy to read Rebel's guide, take the rebel city to your north first, then any ones you want to steal from the AI (Metz is good as either, Barcelona and Dijon for France and I guess Zagreb, Breslau, or Prauge for HRE, depending on who you want to piss off). Do that till someone attacks you, then kill said AI. Wash, rinse, repeat. You prolly have enough starting troops for two armies. Generals are really damn good field units.

**MooseUpNorth** · May 25, 2012, 08:22 PM

Step 1: Marry your princess off to the English post-haste. Yes, they'll accept, and oddly enough, this will keep them off your back for a good long time. The English make surprisingly good allies to the French _if_ you let them keep Caen and pass up on Holland and Belgium. Do not, repeat, do not attempt to remove or buy Caen from the English. They're not especially looking to head further south anytime soon. They want the coast. Not you. They'll be happy enough stalemating the Scots and Danes for as long as you let them. (This seems to be reliable.)

Step 2: It's possible, if you're quick, good, quick, and quick, to take all of the nearby rebel cities within a dozen turns using your starting troops and a few mercs. You'll have to use your judgement as to where to attack and where to siege, but it's doable.

Step 3: Marseilles is your primary goal, and Toulouse is almost as important. You _must_ have those cities. With them, your money and army problems are largely over. Make Marseilles your new capital city (Marseilles grows like a weed for the French and will surpass Paris very quickly.) Toulouse is your sole castle (and maybe Dijon if you get it in time.)

Step 4: Again, keep making nice with the English as best you can. They should be at war with the Scots and Danes by now. Also by now, you should be able to get diplomats to make an alliance with one of the Spanish, Portuguese, and Moors, with the HRE and Papal States, and possibly Hungary, Poland, and Byzantine if you can manage it. Trade with all others.

Step 5: Your next war should be against the Milanese for Dijon (if they got to it first), and especially Milan and Genoa. The rest of Italy, as opportunities present themselves, is also very desirable. Italian cities are very lucrative places to hold, and Palmero makes an excellent soldier training center and one of the best Catholic staging grounds for Crusades.

**shikaka** · May 26, 2012, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by MooseUpNorth

Also by now, you should be able to get diplomats to make an alliance with one of the Spanish, Portuguese, and Moors, with the HRE and Papal States, and possibly Hungary, Poland, and Byzantine if you can manage it. Trade with all others.

Alliance as France with HRE and Hungary/Poland will not last long. HRE will get into a war with Poland soon, and maybe Hungary too.

I think a good initial alliance setup for France is: Pope, HRE, England (if Caen is not important for you) one from Portugal/Spain.

As HRE, a good alliance is: Pope, France, Scotland and Hungary or Venice (but not both).

**MooseUpNorth** · May 26, 2012, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by shikaka

Alliance as France with HRE and Hungary/Poland will not last long. HRE will get into a war with Poland soon, and maybe Hungary too.

I know. Hungary and Poland are likely to get into it with each other too. Thing is, you don't need those alliances to last long, and you can afford the rep hit if you have to pick sides. But the more alliances you have, the less likely HRE takes a swipe at you while you're subduing Milan and Sicily. The goal is to prevent extraneous wars, on the cheap, until you can afford to build armies with suitable troops.

I think a good initial alliance setup for France is: Pope, HRE, England (if Caen is not important for you) one from Portugal/Spain.

You'll have to work a bit to keep on HRE's good side. They're not always very trustworthy as allies, but yeah, that might wind up more stable. Venice, the nation, (if you don't want Venice, the city,) is a good stable ally for France.

As HRE, a good alliance is: Pope, France, Scotland and Hungary or Venice (but not both).

And Russia.