Plans for the Future of RS2:

[dvk901]

Since the whole discussion on the Seleucids and their early (or not) demise kinda wasted another thread, I start this one to discuss a few things that relate to that.

First of all, after the release of the next patch, there will be a number of changes to things that we've been discussing on the team.
A very few may be global changes, but the bulk of them will be the updating and fine tuning of every campaign...starting with, oddly enough, the Seleucids.

Some time ago a lot was offered in terms of ideas, traits, buildings, etc. that could be done to make Seleucid the Empire it was. There was just no time to deal with any faction 'individually', as the whole 'global' trait system was being overhauled. But now, with a 'base' mod that will hopefully be solid as it can be, we'll start customizing campaigns a bit more individually.

Seleucid will get (already has, actually) Loyalty added to them, using the Free Greeks as the 'rebel' faction. They will also get a number of new buildings and traits, and a good going over in terms of balance and playability....both in a 1 and 0 turn campaign.
My 'intention' is to do this for everyone...but it may be determined more by 'interest' as to who gets this attention first.

[Primo]

Well, I would like the Gaelice to be made as the next faction. They have a very interesting unit roster, and clash early with the two grand powers - Rome and Carthage.

[dvk901]

I would like to add "that this is not about what faction is better, but more about personal faction preferences - and that the last decision lies with the developers, of course." I don't want this thread to digress into an argument about what faction is better or worse, I'm more interested in people providing a personal 'testimony', shall we say, that they like this faction or that, and it would be nice if 'this or that' could be made better, added, or tweaked.

And please be aware that 'generic' comments like 'that faction sucks', or 'don't bother with them' will be ignored. We don't want to waste our time on factions that no one cares about 'in general'. Rather, we want to improve factions that people DO care about. (And please exclude from this the Romans. This particular emphasis is for other factions. Everyone seems to talk about the Romans anyway. I want to see input on other factions.)

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Query...

Is there a desire that any faction, if played by the player, has a reasonable (some can be harder than others) chance of 'winning'?

If not, then are there a number of factions who are only there, really, to provide enemies? If so, then I would first exclude them - and then concentrate on those factions for discussion that it is deemed should.

For example, any of the Successor factions that could dream of glory (as indeed the Seleucids). The Sarmatians as a forerunner of the Steppe Hordes. The Germans/Cimbri who were always strong, but never seemed to coalesce and dream of conquest.......

[RafoutRoud]

Since the whole discussion on the Seleucids and their early (or not) demise kinda wasted another thread, I start this one to discuss a few things that relate to that.

First of all, after the release of the next patch, there will be a number of changes to things that we've been discussing on the team.
A very few may be global changes, but the bulk of them will be the updating and fine tuning of every campaign...starting with, oddly enough, the Seleucids.

Some time ago a lot was offered in terms of ideas, traits, buildings, etc. that could be done to make Seleucid the Empire it was. There was just no time to deal with any faction 'individually', as the whole 'global' trait system was being overhauled. But now, with a 'base' mod that will hopefully be solid as it can be, we'll start customizing campaigns a bit more individually.

Seleucid will get (already has, actually) Loyalty added to them, using the Free Greeks as the 'rebel' faction. They will also get a number of new buildings and traits, and a good going over in terms of balance and playability....both in a 1 and 0 turn campaign.
My 'intention' is to do this for everyone...but it may be determined more by 'interest' as to who gets this attention first.

Hay friend. I haz a few ideas relating to the...toning of the Seleucid Empire.

-- I would just like to start by saying - they do deserve a look- and your plans are comforting.
I strongly believe that the East doesn't benefit at all from an early Seleucid exit - in fact, an early demise makes for various imbalances in the area where they would have been. Obviously, they are face to face with more hostility than almost any other faction in the game. Otherwise, touching upon various things ---

-- For units, the Seleucids have one of the most diverse rosters...although I have yet to see the AI make use of it in any campaign I have played - this is either due to cost and/or the faction is dead or dying. The AI has limits, it is true...but when it isn't possible to make use of the strength of the unit roster, it is in the pit. The speed at which they lose territory and are deprived of funds needed to recruit their battle breaking units doesn't help - I'm talking about elephants, cataphracts and chariots which they have never get round to recruiting during my campaigns and which crucially - are the units that can help them prevents the loss of the entire East to Parthia within a few turns. They also have a tendency to recruit big stacks of poor quality units, I find....

-- I just think it creates quite a bad game when they are rushed so fast that they can't recruit any or enough elite units to put up a fight, none of which are found in the Eastern provinces (btw)
The Seleucids didn't just roll over like scrubs for the picking, they were involved in wars in Greece against the Romans as well - However, since the AI is not following any sort of pre-determined plan - throwing them a bone to continue the fight in Syria etc is fair.

-- The Strength of the Ptolomeys is important also. They have few options for expansion...and sadly, as the AI plays out the first turns, Raphia is almost never fought, Antoichous moves back and Jerusalem falls soon after - which puts into play /domino effect/. Gradual decline is completely acceptable...but getting rushed before the Romans even have a chance to interact with them is a bit . They should be given the chance to put up a long fight, with the vastness of their empire as a pointer as to how long that fight should last. It doesn't make sense to have overly strong and vast Ptolmaic and Parthian empires early - a stronger Seleucid empire's job would not be to stop expansion..but to be strong enough to properly delay and prevent silly outcomes.

-- The strength of Pontus and Armenia are underestimated as well, as their stacks are comprised of pretty strong units. Parthia and the steamrolling machine needs a look at though. If they puncture one settlement on the fringe of the Seleucid empire, they don't stop till they reach Babylon and it doesn't take them many turns.
You were saying how they were getting some new buildings and such, that would be pretty welcome, especially in the Eastern territories where some places can't recruit and units and lack basic defenses.

-- The script does try to help the Seleucids but it isn't enough. If I /toggle fow, they tend to focus on one front while another falls completely with few battles being fought. The endgame for them is having wandering stacks and few settlements - something reminiscent of a player rushing AI settlements so their troops turn into rebels the next turn.

-- Time and fighting capabilities seem to be the biggest issues here. The economy functions fine...but then again, an economy only functions if you have territories, which isn't good news for the Seleucids past turn 30. Starting forces are also pretty small, which is an issue for holding territories. And, the Eastern territories inparticular hold no economic value to start with.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys will cook up something good.

[Antiochus_III]

This is wonderful dvk! I have always wanted that extra loyalty factor with the Seleucid Empire. It seemed odd that with such a vast empire to start with there was no betrayal or usurping.Especially considering the later Empire had some serious trouble with Civil Wars!
As for other factions I think factions like Parthia could certainly do with some destabilisation. I find when playing as Parthia I expand comfortably until I fight Rome, and then end the campaign. Loyalty in general for me is like an extension of the campaign experience, it adds some awesome depth!

Thank you to you and the team for doing this!

[RafoutRoud]

This is wonderful dvk! I have always wanted that extra loyalty factor with the Seleucid Empire. It seemed odd that with such a vast empire to start with there was no betrayal or usurping.Especially considering the later Empire had some serious trouble with Civil Wars!
As for other factions I think factions like Parthia could certainly do with some destabilisation. I find when playing as Parthia I expand comfortably until I fight Rome, and then end the campaign. Loyalty in general for me is like an extension of the campaign experience, it adds some awesome depth!

Thank you to you and the team for doing this!

You're right, Parthia needs to be reined in. The Seleucids made them into mincemeat more than a couple of times. Currently, that isn't possible.

But yeah, the loyalty factor will make one hell of a Seleucid experience now!

[Simon_Bar-Kochba]

well if you could make something for Rome like:
- You can see from al your generals,governors and family members who is most popular in Rome and use this as a base for who will be consul,tribune and like that

[Ybbon]

well if you could make something for Rome like:
- You can see from al your generals,governors and family members who is most popular in Rome and use this as a base for who will be consul,tribune and like that

As DVK said, "And please exclude from this the Romans."...

[Simon_Bar-Kochba]

As DVK said, "And please exclude from this the Romans."...

I read to fast


EDIT: but i got an idea maybe if there is something as a rebellion that they could start as a faction of their own...
Like roman rebels or free greeks but for all the factions

[LoGaL]

I suppose that the chartaginians or the macedons should get the next remake... followed maybe by pergamon which seems a faction that is appreciated by many players
Parthians could get a revamp in the representation of an oriental monarchy and all the gealousy stuff ( like surena who was assassinated by the king ecc ecc)
Let's say a general who is too victorious starts getting traits like king is suspicious or similar
At the same time when the king dies whe can represent a split of the empire if 2 or more sons with good influence are alive
where the non-chosen son rebels and brings under his control settlements based on his traits ecc ecc

[kanzy]

I liked playing Sparta but not for a specific reason but I generally like Greek factions, I still get the feeling that they could use some more work in the traits area, I am not sure what is the problem with Seleucids, in my current 1- turn campaign they are pretty strong, its 635 and they have started expanding in to Pergamon, they have Parthia in check and could crush them if they AI decides to expand their direction they also have Ptolemy’s in a bad place, they took some cities and have a tense border war with them and they seem to be wining.
One of their ele. catphracts decimated 80% of my stack in a battle

So my personal preference would have to be Greek factions for President

[Iskandar]

The last campaign that I started was 1-trun Seleucids. Haven't played it that long though, so excuse any incorrect assumptions on my part.

I'd like to see the elite units buffed (Hypaspistai, Hetairoi, maybe Argyraspides and the special Thorakitai unit-forgot the name; too). RTR VII has done this exceptionally well, allowing for even deeper immersion in the game. Going the same route (extremely long recruitment) might not work for RS though, especially the 0-turn camapigns, but something similar would be nice (and for the other Greek "imperial" factions as well - Macedon and the Ptolemies).

Improve the starting situation of Media and Mikra Media with higher level barracks, walls, loyalty bonuses,etc., since those were historically very important recruitment centers, especially for cavalry (cataphracts).

The elephants are getting reworked, so that's good.

There's a switch between two consecutive levels of barracks, in one you get the Longchophoroi cavalry, in the other you can't recruit it anymore and get the Xystophoroi instead (lesser protection, but scares infantry). Is that a design choice or an oversight? If it's the first, perhaps the Xystophoroi charge and melee stats should be increased.

Can't speak much for the 0-turn, but in 1-turn the Seleucids decay in an almost acceptable pace, so congratulations on that, this is one of the hardest thing to balance. The problem though is that most of the time they are pushed out of Syria, whereas, historically that was their territory in the last of their years. Perhaps buffing some of those regions and providing Antiocheia with AI vs AI garrison script will change that, without tipping the scales too much in the other direction.

Also, providing roads from Kilikia to Lycaonia (and setting the latter in the list of objectives for the Seleucids) might help towards getting more historical expansion in Mikra Asia.

[Simon_Bar-Kochba]

Okay i played some turns with pergamum and macedon betrays me
Could it maybe be possible to ask allies to go to war together with you if your are declared war to( like in ETW or NTW)

[Paedric]

No, diplomacy is probably what is the least modifiable. (That is not at all, and you can't even influence it).

[Simon_Bar-Kochba]

No, diplomacy is probably what is the least modifiable. (That is not at all, and you can't even influence it).

Well who doesn't try doesnt but lets stay on topic and suggest ideas that will make RS2 THE MOST AWESOME MOD in the world

[Ferdiad]

They just need to fix the AI then.

[RafoutRoud]

Seleucids rolling up, right?

[Ferdiad]

Always.

[Chernish]

Seleucid will get (already has, actually) Loyalty added to them, using the Free Greeks as the 'rebel' faction.

This is very good! Give the Seleucid Rebel city of Sardis and the provincies in Asia Minor to the north of the Taurus. This is Seleucid possessions seized by rebellion of Achaeus. Seleucids had interests in Asia Minor and were driven out after the battle of Magnesia (190 BC)

Аnd Loosen the power of Egypt. In all games SA Egypt swells by leaps and bounds since it has a secure strategic position and the war on only one boundary. In the II century BC Ptolemaic kingdom to decline and could not maintain the power of the Egyptian bureaucracy outside the Nile Valley. In RSII Egypt too easy captures and assimilates the provinces beyond the Nile.